I have yet to meet someone who did what Khat'z did and live to tell about it. I want to tell my story and hopefully I can also hear about other people's experiences of learning Japanese hardcore for 1 year and **** months Here's my story(This is a long one).

2006 - March
I was studying and my brain was looking for ways not to study. I've always been fascinated with the Japanese language, so I thought why not start learning it. So, I closed my Physic book and decided that I would learn Hiragana.

At that time, I had no intention of learning Japanese whatsoever at all. Hiragana looked cool and I just want to learn it for fun. After I learned Hiragana, I figured I might as well learn Katakana. After I learned Katakana, I still didn't have a clue how to say anything in Japanese.

2006 May- December
Then I started Pimsleur. I didn't do the lessons everyday. At this point, I actually believed that I would speak Japanese the way I speak English once I finished the course. I also bought a book from Chapters(a popular book store). It was one of those typical Japanese for beginners written solely in romaji.

2006 December
I found out about about http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com. I started using the SRS but I never took it seriously. I spent maybe about a couple of hours on it in total.

2007
There was a long break here. I read the book from Chapters for a bit, and tried to do Pimsleur here and then. I really thought it would make me fluent so I stuck through it. By November, the farthest I reached in Pimsleur is lesson 19 Part II.

I remember being worried about the right way to study Japanese. I didn't really think the SRS thing was going to work. Most of my time was spent not studying Japanese, but researching the internet for the best ways to learn Japanese. Yeah, I remember it now. But at this point, I didn't have much desire to actually learn Japanese.

2007 December
I started to use Khatzumemo again, and put in some sentences from Tae Kim. At this point, I was averaging about 1-2 of Japanese studying time.

2008 - February
I joined a language exchange club at my university. I remember my first time, it was terrible. I would introduce myself and after that I had to rely on English. I used to bring these pieces of papers with Japanese sentences written on it. I got the sentences from alc.co.jp and I wanted to ask the Japanese people there whether they were natural or not. It was simple stuff like: どう思いますか？. I remember being told 上手ですね. Now that I think about it, I can't help to laugh. At this point, I just learned the kanji by writing whatever the word was as I saw it. At this point, I probably knew about 50.

I still wasn't using the SRS daily. I took many breaks. I even went as long as a month without logging on. At this point, I was very much a beginner. Even though more than one year has passed since I learned the Hiragana/Katakana I basically had to re-learn it. This is the point that I consider to be my point zero because what I did between 2006 March and 2008 February, I could have done in 3 months of 1-2 hours of studying everyday. My vocabulary was probably around 100 words.

2008 August
I had registered for this site on June 2007 but I barely used it at all. 2008 was the time when I started to actually learn the Kanji. I started adding sentences like crazy to Khatzumemo, more than I can review for one day. At the same time, I was trying to learn kanji from "Remember the Kanji". Plus, I started adding sentences into Anki because it was able to test me on both sides of the card. Eventually, I got to about 3000 sentences on both Khatzumemo and Anki. I later stopped using Khatzumemo completely because I liked Anki better. Here is one of my post at the time:

"I'm getting there. I've been studying Japanese for about a year now. About 6 months I devoted to RTK, and the other to actually learning Japanese. I can say that in a few 3 months, I can go for JLPT2. My vocabulary is large. I have about 3000 sentences so far. And basically anything I read, I can understand atleast 50% (with the exception of very specific material, science, etc..). "

This is a typical example of a beginner's delusion. I don't know why I said those things.


2009 January
Finally finished RTK. Actually I got up too 2100 with 100-200 failed cards and a couple of hundred cards which needed to be reviewed. A couple of weeks later, I was just sick of reviewing RTK, so I held my breath and deleted the deck.

2009 August
As of today, I have 4249 Facts on my Anki. 250 of those cards I have yet to see.

So, the most important thing you all want to know is: How good is my Japanese?

That's a tough question to answer. To tell you the truth, in the last year or so this is the longest thing I've ever written in English. Now a days, I read something in Japanese for about 4-5 hours/day, 1-1.5 hours/day on Anki, 1 hour/day or so looking/watching at random things in Japanese. In total, that's about 7.5 hours. It's possible for me because I'm not in school and I have a job where I can do whatever the heck I want.

I've read:
11 novels
40 Mangas
A couple of hundred pages of a Japanese BBS
Random articles on internet

BUT: I'm still not there. Am I fluent?
I know I'm still missing a lot of things. I rarely speak Japanese, so my speaking skills are not very good at all. In comparison, my reading/understanding skills reign supreme.
I wished I had read novels and mangas earlier on. I guess, a lot of people want to compare to me to Khatz, but then again we didn't see a video of him speaking Japanese when he claimed to be fluent. If you hear me speak, as in speak Japanese on the spot without preparing anything, you would pretty much mistake me for a beginner lol.

I don't know if what I wrote makes any sense. I'm pretty sure I've missed some things but please ask. I'm also looking forward to see how I can improve my Japanese even more.

Thanks for the post. I see parallels in part to how I was studying, mainly with doing Pimsleur and JFBP before and during doing RTK.

I'm wondering, how would you rate your listening skills in all of this? It's by realizing how well I could read, but not listen to (and as a by product speak in) natural Japanese that changed my approach to all of this.

Sounds like your effort really paid off! Thanks for the update - I'm sure folks appreciate getting a realistic sense of how others are doing with pure AJATT. Good luck with the next phase. If you come across any good books, please let us know.

Nukemarine Wrote:Thanks for the post. I see parallels in part to how I was studying, mainly with doing Pimsleur and JFBP before and during doing RTK.

I'm wondering, how would you rate your listening skills in all of this? It's by realizing how well I could read, but not listen to (and as a by product speak in) natural Japanese that changed my approach to all of this.

I don't really know how to rate my listening skills. I always watch RAW dramas/animes. If the drama is a love story(７リトルの涙）、then I can understand about 90% of it. The harder dramas are stuff like　ガリレオ。 I listen to nothing but Japanese all day long, so it helps. But, let's say I go to a party with 5 Japanese people speaking to each other. When they get all excited, I find it hard to concentrate and understand what they are saying.

Btw, in my opinion I need about 2 more years. At that time, all the holes will be covered and I can definitely say I'll be fluent in Japanese.

I'm not sure how the first line of your post relates to the topic.

Are you saying you've never met someone who did what he prescribes and reached fluency? Cuz, that's a big can of subjective apples.

I like that you've invested a siiiick amount of time in the language. I will I was so diligent. I've been studying for a year, now. I can hold everyday sort of conversations without too many problems. I don't spend nearly as much time reading as I should since I've started school again, and I've been working on art related projects.

I'm not doing pure AJATT, as 先輩 put it. I'm applying more of a jeet kun do mentality; taking what I like from certain methods and deleting the rest.

Right now I don't mine for sentences. I use premade tae kim, smart fm, and subs2srs decks, I do my own version of scriptorium, and I've stopped listening around the clock as it seems mostly like "やがだやがだや、やはり、やがだやがだ、どうして、やがだ、なるほど、超速再生、そんな力、やがだやがだ、やがだやがだアタシでいたいやがだ、自分の中やがだ、ほかの、やがだ、たましい” There's no way in hell to gain anything valuable at this point. It's even worse when old people talk, "やがだやがだやがだやがだやがだじゃ、んんん、やがだやがだやがだ、おお、やがだやがだやがだ.”

I've gotten to point where I clearly hear the syllables but not don't understand the words being said, so I'm focusing more on vocabulary and recognizing it by ear.

What I meant is that his site has been around. But, I haven't met another person who actually studied Japanese hardcore in that amount of time.

mr_hans_moleman Wrote:What I meant is that his site has been around. But, I haven't met another person who actually studied Japanese hardcore in that amount of time.

よろしく

Katzumoto speaking Japanese

I don't think he shows off an amazing vocab or makes really complex sentences, but the naturalness with which he speaks is impressive.

There are also some radio show type things that he did but I can't find them.

mr hans, where are did the 4249 facts in your SRS come from?

>thermal

I just like to point out that that video is 2 years after he claimed to be fluent. With those two years being spent in Japan.

To the OP: Your post sounds like a great success story for me. Very motivating But you sound like you're disappointed. With what?

Reading all these manga/novels/articles in Japanese?
Having a huge vocabulary?

I wish I had such problems

Its obvious you won't be super fluent in a year, even Khatzumotos 18 months doesn't mean he was really fluent at that point but he is right about one thing, you will eventually get there. Just keep up the good work till you're satisfied with your results.

>thermal

The sentences in my SRS came from Tae Kim, and alc.co.jp in the beginning. What I would also do is type in words on google and look for interesting sentences. Right now, I get them from stuff I read on the internet, or in books. One thing I find useful is:
http://chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/

It's a very useful site for getting sentences.

>thurd
Yes I am a bit disappointed. In my mind, I'm still a beginner even though I can read novels. If I compare myself to a native speaker, then I am a beginner. If I compare myself to other people studying Japanese, then I'm advanced.

thurd Wrote:Its obvious you won't be super fluent in a year

Not super, but pretty damned close











Sorta...

"about 7.5 hours?" Who on earth can do apart from millionaires and jobless people? What's your job? Are you like dying behind the computer in a big international company? Lucky you as long as your goal is to learn Japanese.

All in all, I just want to add my BIG THANK for the feeback on your experience. This is the kind of words I really like to read: about human, individual experience...

Now, what would be your comment on my situation:
PHASE 1: It's been about 3 weeks that I've been doing Pimsleur (30 min/day or every 2 day)and RTK (10 to 20 kanjis/day or every day).
- If I find 1:30 per day for my Japanese, I'm just lucky.
- Every 2 weeks, I spent about 2 hours with a Japanese friend for language exchange.
Should I just keep on like this during 6 months to see where it goes? At least, in between those 2 references (Pimsleur and RTK), I don't feel lost and can focus quite easily,esp. seeing the limited time I have to study.

PHASE 2: Once I'm finished with Pimsleur and RTK, my plan is to go for Tae Kim's and add his sentence to Anki.

PHASE 3: reading real materials (novels, short stories, manga) and mining for sentences and grammar points based on those materials.

Again, please consider that I can't devote enough time to perfect both my oral and written Japanese, etc.

OP-

Great post. I too am curious if there is a "fluent" AJATTer out there. I also started with Pimsleur (got through Intermediate). When I started, this was in September last year, I knew nothing, and the goal was to just learn a little bit, so when I traveled to J land (a dream of mine for many years) I could show some respect to the natives. Japanese is the first 2nd language I have ever tried. From there, my interest in the culture/language grew, and I realized that I wanted more than to be able to say basic phrases, and that Pimsluer wouldn't work. I began to research language learning on the net, and was considering finding classes. Then of course, I found AJATT (this was in December)......

Like many, I was inspired! Khatz gave me the motivation to want to learn reading and writing. I liked the idea of learning to speak/listen/read/write, and the dream of fluency took flight.

January 1st I began RTK, and recording for myself my study efforts. I have a daily calender with three catigories:Listening (hours per day - both active and passive), Kanji (#of RTK added, RTK#, #reviewed, %passed) and as of Feb, Sentences (#added, #reviewed in SRS). I started mining around 1300 in RTK I think, because I was getting too bored only doing RTK. I also got my Kana somewhere in there. This slowed down RTK, but that was fine with me. I reviewed RTK 2042 on April 30th.

I enjoy the SRS, but my mining is a bit slow. I really need to hear my mined sentences outside of Anki time, so I have them on the ipod. I found adding more than 10 sentences a day was too much, so I was not getting too many cards in. For mining I mostly used the KO list on iknow, and Jpod101. I did this until June 15th, and I think it was going well......

Then life interfered. I was called to Alaska to go commercial fishing. With only a few days notice I tried to come up with something to limit the atrophy of my studies, but when it came down to it, I was too busy to study, and I lacked the portable tools I would of needed anyway (my ipod died in AK too). So my studies took a 2+ month hit, and boy does it sting! Until today, I have not been able to resume my studies.

I am a beginner BIG TIME, but now I have to fight to reclaim the little I knew. RTK is in bad shape, listening is pretty bad, and speaking/reading/writing......HORRIBLE!

But yo, I'm back, and ready to kick some serious 日本語の勉強 ass! One of the positives is I have a new macbook pro, and ipod touch in my arsinel! I think a month of study will reconnect the J synapses, and from there I can begin to progress again. Though I am a bit frustrated with the state of my Japanese, I have learned an amazing amount about myself, motivation, and how to learn. I have evolved "AJATT" into more than a system for leaning language, and like many who were inspired by the site, have found my own way with it.

From my vantage, you are doing really really well! I appreciate you sharing your experience, and it gives me inspiration to continue (really painful right now, but I know it will all work out!)

頑張って!!!

Post removed:

I totally bungled the tone of this one, coming across as a condescending jerk. Please see my apology below.

@wildweathel: You're telling a guy who can understand TV and has read:

11 novels
40 Mangas
A couple of hundred pages of a Japanese BBS
Random articles on internet

... how to micromanage his SRS??

I must have read Mr Moleman's differently, because your sarcasm, negative assessment and advice strike me as a bit out of place. We're celebrating his success. Join the party.

(ps I wouldn't get too serious about SRS stats - so many variables and interpretations, you know?)

I can understand not wanting to do your RTK deck. In fact, I have my daily review waiting for me. I hate SRSing (I can't believe anyone thinks it's fun.)

If I ever gain any fluency, the first thing I'll drop like a rock is my Japanese SRS deck (probably to be replaced by a Spanish, Latin, or Italian deck though )

@Thora, Mr. Hans

Yeah, Thora's right. I'm not really happy with the tone of that post. I think what happened is I caught the somewhat-frustrated tone in the OP and immediately went off problem-hunting--something that comes across dangerously close to fault-finding. I neglected to copy-edit for tone. I'm sorry.

May I try again?

Mr. Hans, first, don't discount your success so far. I really look up to the level that you have achieved. Khatzumoto warns about the intermediate-doldrums here, and while I can't offer encouragement from personal experience, I hope you get through them well.

One place where I can attempt to offer some advice, both from practical and theoretical knowledge, is making SRS fun, even addicting, and thus effective. It sounds like this may be an area you can improve. Are you interested?

Are you interested?
I am, sensei mr_hans_moleman :-)

YogaSpirit Wrote:"about 7.5 hours?" Who on earth can do apart from millionaires and jobless people? What's your job? Are you like dying behind the computer in a big international company? Lucky you as long as your goal is to learn Japanese.

All in all, I just want to add my BIG THANK for the feeback on your experience. This is the kind of words I really like to read: about human, individual experience...

Now, what would be your comment on my situation:
PHASE 1: It's been about 3 weeks that I've been doing Pimsleur (30 min/day or every 2 day)and RTK (10 to 20 kanjis/day or every day).
- If I find 1:30 per day for my Japanese, I'm just lucky.
- Every 2 weeks, I spent about 2 hours with a Japanese friend for language exchange.
Should I just keep on like this during 6 months to see where it goes? At least, in between those 2 references (Pimsleur and RTK), I don't feel lost and can focus quite easily,esp. seeing the limited time I have to study.

PHASE 2: Once I'm finished with Pimsleur and RTK, my plan is to go for Tae Kim's and add his sentence to Anki.

PHASE 3: reading real materials (novels, short stories, manga) and mining for sentences and grammar points based on those materials.

Again, please consider that I can't devote enough time to perfect both my oral and written Japanese, etc.

That's because I work in security =D.
You are pretty much doing what I did in the beginning. One thing I wished I did is finish RTK as soon as possible. I'm talking about within 3 months or less. Even if you forgot 100-200 kanjis, that's okay. If it's important, you will see it again through reading things. You have an interesting situation because you just don't have time. But, maybe you should ask yourself whether it's possible for you do study for a couple of hours a day. I don't know your situation, but I'm sure not everyone has as much free time as I do. Pimsleur is a good start, but it's like 1% or less of the equation. Try to get to study so that you can be able to read some things in Japanese. In your case, if you are not trying to aim for the Japanese Olympics, then what you are doing is good. Language exchanges are really good. You need to squeeze Japanese out of your friend as much as possible.

TaylorSan Wrote:OP-

Great post. I too am curious if there is a "fluent" AJATTer out there. I also started with Pimsleur (got through Intermediate). When I started, this was in September last year, I knew nothing, and the goal was to just learn a little bit, so when I traveled to J land (a dream of mine for many years) I could show some respect to the natives. Japanese is the first 2nd language I have ever tried. From there, my interest in the culture/language grew, and I realized that I wanted more than to be able to say basic phrases, and that Pimsluer wouldn't work. I began to research language learning on the net, and was considering finding classes. Then of course, I found AJATT (this was in December)......

Like many, I was inspired! Khatz gave me the motivation to want to learn reading and writing. I liked the idea of learning to speak/listen/read/write, and the dream of fluency took flight.

January 1st I began RTK, and recording for myself my study efforts. I have a daily calender with three catigories:Listening (hours per day - both active and passive), Kanji (#of RTK added, RTK#, #reviewed, %passed) and as of Feb, Sentences (#added, #reviewed in SRS). I started mining around 1300 in RTK I think, because I was getting too bored only doing RTK. I also got my Kana somewhere in there. This slowed down RTK, but that was fine with me. I reviewed RTK 2042 on April 30th.

I enjoy the SRS, but my mining is a bit slow. I really need to hear my mined sentences outside of Anki time, so I have them on the ipod. I found adding more than 10 sentences a day was too much, so I was not getting too many cards in. For mining I mostly used the KO list on iknow, and Jpod101. I did this until June 15th, and I think it was going well......

Then life interfered. I was called to Alaska to go commercial fishing. With only a few days notice I tried to come up with something to limit the atrophy of my studies, but when it came down to it, I was too busy to study, and I lacked the portable tools I would of needed anyway (my ipod died in AK too). So my studies took a 2+ month hit, and boy does it sting! Until today, I have not been able to resume my studies.

I am a beginner BIG TIME, but now I have to fight to reclaim the little I knew. RTK is in bad shape, listening is pretty bad, and speaking/reading/writing......HORRIBLE!

But yo, I'm back, and ready to kick some serious 日本語の勉強 ass! One of the positives is I have a new macbook pro, and ipod touch in my arsinel! I think a month of study will reconnect the J synapses, and from there I can begin to progress again. Though I am a bit frustrated with the state of my Japanese, I have learned an amazing amount about myself, motivation, and how to learn. I have evolved "AJATT" into more than a system for leaning language, and like many who were inspired by the site, have found my own way with it.

From my vantage, you are doing really really well! I appreciate you sharing your experience, and it gives me inspiration to continue (really painful right now, but I know it will all work out!)

頑張って!!!

I don't really doubt the existence of a fluent "AJATTeer". What I doubt is someone who can speak/read/write fluent Japanese in 16 months or less. I literally dedicated my life to Japanese this past 16 months, so maybe I did something wrong. Try picking up some mangas. I recommend Crayon shincan. It's very simple and comes with furigana. It was one of those things that made me want to keep studying Japanese.

wildweathel Wrote:@Thora, Mr. Hans

Yeah, Thora's right. I'm not really happy with the tone of that post. I think what happened is I caught the somewhat-frustrated tone in the OP and immediately went off problem-hunting--something that comes across dangerously close to fault-finding. I neglected to copy-edit for tone. I'm sorry.

May I try again?

Mr. Hans, first, don't discount your success so far. I really look up to the level that you have achieved. Khatzumoto warns about the intermediate-doldrums here, and while I can't offer encouragement from personal experience, I hope you get through them well.

One place where I can attempt to offer some advice, both from practical and theoretical knowledge, is making SRS fun, even addicting, and thus effective. It sounds like this may be an area you can improve. Are you interested?

Making SRS fun is definitely important. Also, treating each card as important as the next is important as well. I forget that often. Thanks for tips.

What you should do, IMO, is go to Japan. You're American, so you can get a work holiday visa, right? Take it, go to Japan for 6 months or so. You seem to lack only in speaking, and you learn to speak Japanese extremely well by living there for a while.

Another thing to think about is your vocabulary. About how many words do you know? It could be that in your complete AJATT focus, you have enjoyed websites and such things and learned to ignore the words you don't know to mine just what you need (which is what Khazu recommends), and maybe your vocabulary is still just in the 9000-10 000 range, which is probably a level where you feel you SHOULD be fluent but it still doesn't feel quite right (you said you have about 5000 facts in your SRS, so it could definitely be right). Just keep boosting your vocab (a tip is to go through the JLPT lists systematically and enter a sentence or two for each word you come across that you don't know. For me, who already had a vocabulary of around 6000 words, it is an awesome way to make sure I learn ALL the basic important words, without wasting too much time. It still means I skip most words, so it's not very heavy mining.)

Americans can't get work holiday visas.