Thought I'd start a thread devoted to this "problem". It is a problem to the extent that when you draw kanji while reviewing and your stroke count doesn't match that of the site, you think you've done something wrong when in fact that's not the case.

Anyway to get the ball rolling, Heisig counts hair of the head as 14 strokes meaning that the long primative counts for 7 strokes. But when he gets to beard,stroke count 17, he seems to be counting the same primative as 8 strokes. I think it is the case that you can write that primative as 7 or 8 strokes but it would seem logical to be consistent. Or, where JEDict lists various stroke counts, perhaps the site could show both?

This thread has been languishing, so I'll try to revive it...

There is an inconsistency with the number of strokes in the primitive on the left side of "detach" (which I call "detachable penis", from the great song by King Missile, but other people have different names for it). This primitive either has 10 or 11 strokes, depending on whether you draw the "elbow" with 2 or 3 strokes.

離 18 (implies 10) (detach)
璃 14 (implies 10) (crystal)
禽 13 (implies 11) (fowl)
檎 17 (implies 11) (apple)

If I check with Halpern, he agrees with the first two, implying 10 strokes for the primitive, but doesn't have the last two characters. kakijun.main.jp is consistent, and implies 11 strokes for the primitive in all cases, so it gives 19 strokes for detach and 15 for crystal.

Any thoughts on this? Are there two ways in which this primitive is drawn? Or is either way acceptable?

ergerg Wrote:This thread has been languishing, so I'll try to revive it...

再興しよう！ (learned that earlier today!, さいこう)

It has been mentioned on other threads that jouyou kanji seem to have fixed stroke counts. The stroke count for kanji outside the jouyou set seems more laissez-faire.

Perhaps it's a bit like UK vs US spelling. For those learning the language it is probably a bit frustrating. But for those of us who already speak the language, who cares?

The Japanese people I've asked about stroke counts don't seem all that concerned. I'm trying to chill out about it these days...

生返った！ (which I'm probably using incorrectly here...)

Thanks for your response, you're probably right that one shouldn't get too hung up on this sort of thing...

According to kanji.koohii and Jim Breen, 箸（はし） is 15 strokes, but I just don't get it...bamboo:6 plus puppet:8 = 14.

You're forgetting about the invisible stroke!

[Katsuo]

There are two versions of what Heisig calls "puppet". One version has an extra "drop" which brings it up to 9 strokes. It seems that the 9-stroke version is considered to be standard, though in practice the 8-stroke version is more often used.

Another kanji with this variation is Heisig no 2448 "dawn". Incidentally, Akebono, the Hawaiian sumo wrestler, used this kanji for his name, and at one point in his career changed it to the version with the extra stroke.

Katsuo Wrote:There are two versions of what Heisig calls "puppet". One version has an extra "drop" which brings it up to 9 strokes. It seems that the 9-stroke version is considered to be standard, though in practice the 8-stroke version is more often used.

Well, that depends on what you mean by "standard." I believe that all of the joyo-kanji that contain 者 are defined as having no extra drop, but I think it's common practice for 漢和 dictionaries so show non-joyo-kanji as having the drop. So it seems the 9-stroke version is the longer established one, but the 8-stroke one is the standard joyo-kanji version.

I noticed that RTK1 4th ed. has 賭 with the 8-stroke 者 and RTK2 3d ed. has it with the 9-stroke one. I don't know if this is because of the change in editions or if it's another overlooked detail. I've never seen the third edition of RTK1 or the 4th of RTK2.

As Fabrice changed the stroke count for some kanji with tusk in them I thought I'd revive this thread just to bring it to the top of the queue.

"Incorrect" stroke counts was something that used to wind me up but the doctor has me on new medication so I'm sleeping soundly these days

RTK1, 3rd ed, lists 賭 as 15 strokes (貝7+者8=賭15)

RTK2, 1st ed, doesn't list stroke counts, but the font used for this book does indeed include the extra stroke that causes 者 to go from 8 to 9 strokes. Strange, the other 者-kanji on that page omit this extra drop:


sample kanji from RTK2, 1st edition, page 176.

I was strict about stroke counts when learning. But now it's review time, and I no longer think about stroke counts.

I have a hard copy of the second edition and that has been fixed. Here is what I have (on page 175 now so maybe frame numbers are a better reference).



Sorry for the look I had to take photos since I wasn't near a scanner.