As far as I can gather, both the Core2000 lists and Kanji Odyssey 2001 are possible ways to go after RTK.
Most people that I've seen tend to prefer the KO2001 option, for one reason or another. So this thread is mainly to ask; what are the advantages and disadvantages of the two?

As far as I can see, the main advantage of the Core2000 lists is that they integrate easily with Anki. They all have audio which can be pasted in, which is useful for listening skills, and there are the Core6000 lists which follow on from them.

KO2001 isn't free, but comes with a book and is supposedly ordered in a more natural order following the kanji. There is also the spreadsheet on here which (I think?) negates the problems of having to type in the sentences. However, as far as I can tell there is no audio for it yet.

What are other people's opinions on this? I haven't heard much from people who have chosen the Core2000 option; was it successful for you or not?
For people who have bought KO2001, is it easy to ship to the UK? I haven't had any experience buying from anyone apart from Amazon on the net, and I'd have to convince my parents that it would be secure to order.

Also, after finishing KO2001, is there a book or something that neatly follows on after that, like Core6000 follows Core2000? What's KIC, I've heard the initials but don't know what it is / how good it is.

Thanks for your help. On an utterly unrelated note, the new series of Torchwood is awesome!

KO2001 has audio (though I think you have to buy the e-book version for it).

The main difference I guess is that KO2001 is ordered after kanji, making it suitable as a followup to RtK. However, the Core2000 sentences seem a lot more natural and native-like to me, so I think the quality is slightly higher.

Well, it depends on your general Japanese level.

Core2000 is the most basic series (except for step 3 and the beginning of step 4) so it's nice for almost newbies (though going through a basic textbook or tae kim first is a must)

KO2001 is slightly more difficult.

From what I've heard Kanji in Context is not for beginners.

i've completed core2000 and i'm somewhat near half way through with KO2001 (near finishing 810 kanji) as far as audio goes for KO2001, we are working on that here http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...0#pid60030 (i think i posted that link a million times lol) you could always do both the core and KO2001 if you wanted... but KO2001 covers in depth more kanji while core2000 focuses on more common words.

How about the total core 6000 at smartfm why don't I ever hear anything about it? I think that might be what I do as far as words, albeit I will get natural sentences but use the list as a guide.

Well it looks like Tae Kim is the best starting place for me after RTK, which I was planning on doing anyway.

I think I'll look through the Core2000 and 6000 lists, and have a go at SRSing them after Tae Kim, before thinking about KO2001. I suppose it doesn't make too much of a difference as long as I'm increasing my Japanese knowledge over time!

Well yeah, I mean the aim is to eventually end up speaking good Japanese so why not start listening to it as early as possible!

I intend to try and listen to Japanese whilst inputting the Core lists in. Hopefully I'll end up understanding some of it!

IceCream Wrote:yep, if you consider Core, consider it as a whole, not just the first 2000.

Both KO and Core 6000 have a large amount of vocab. But since they both have example sentences with audio, why not use it?

Doesn't stop you taking sentences from natural sources too...

Personally I like and respect Khatz (AJATT editor in chief for those who don't know him)and I like the idea of just grabbing from what you like, but I much rather go with these frequency based lists like there, and do a little mining from what you like too. Like me I am mining from the Chinese Pokemon Pearl which right now is the my main recreational reading that I do for Chinese, but I find that using frequency lists I already know a lot of the words even though my vocab is only at 500 or so right now, and based on character readings I know even more.
I could spend all day mining like Khatz suggests but all in all I'd miss half the words (unless I particularly used the list and picked native sentences for them), take twice the time, and I wouldn't have audio for them.
The only downfall is that it is perhaps less motivating to some, but to me I am super motivated just by the fact that these words are pretty much guaranteed to increase my understanding, and my exposure to the native materials will sort out any usage confusions I'm sure.

edsmaffs Wrote:Well yeah, I mean the aim is to eventually end up speaking good Japanese so why not start listening to it as early as possible!

I intend to try and listen to Japanese whilst inputting the Core lists in. Hopefully I'll end up understanding some of it!

You undoubtedly will start to understand some of it! (・∀・)ｶｺｲｲ!!ねぇ！

Just one more thing: afaik KO2001 is kanji only while smart.fm also has kana words!

Core2000 quickly gets into random words and it's a lot harder to learn from. Since 2001ko goes by kanji order, you end up with a lot of sort-of related words together and it's a lot easier to go from 1 word to the next.

Like others, I've done both, though at different times in my studies. As with everything else, there's a give and take. In addition, you have the option to change up how you do them.

1. KO2001 contains words in kanji form if and only if the word happens to have one of the 1100 kanji in books one and two. All other words are in kana. In addition, the word lists are only for the kanji covered. Now, the word list is frequency based, but it's trimmed and ordered in an intuitive wave. As listed, there are now audio sentences available, and it's not too hard to find them with some searching.

Technically, there's 5000 vocabulary words, but in reality there's more if you consider the loan and kana words used in the sentences.

2. Smart.FM contains loan words, kana words, and more advanced compound words in addition to basic compound words. The word list is frequency based, but unfortunately is presented in frequency order.

Like KO2001, there's technically 6000 vocabulary words. In reality, there's more than that with loan words and certain words not listed as vocabulary.

Both lists are perfect to use. KO2k1 has slightly more advanced (and longer) sentences than you'll find in the Core series. I don't know about the KO2k1 audio, but the native speaking sentences are an invaluable resource.

You have many ways to use these corpus. Simplest is just go in the order the lists provide. Probably a good idea with KO2k1, but tedious with Core series.

If you like the ordering of KO2k1 and the sentences of Core series, one can easily download all Core 2000 and 6000 list in Anki, suspend them all, then go about using the KO2001 word list to go about un-suspending sentences. Akin to what a number of us did on Smart.FM with the KO2k1 lists there.

If you're just doing normal sentence mining, the above also make perfect example sentences for words you're coming across. This is what I'm doing now. Beats searching dic.yahoo.jp for example sentences in my opinion.

Again, there options are wide open. How you chose to use the resources are up to you and your interests.

Anyone know anything about iKnow completing the 'advanced' Core? That's right, I called it 'iKnow', not 'smart.fm', which sounds like a radio station.