Why are some people in the Japanese self learning community so down on Heisig?

(2016-06-08, 7:16 am)Stansfield123 Wrote:

(2016-06-07, 10:15 am)CureDolly Wrote: So for example, when I suggest learning kanji more organically, I am certainly not suggesting that we learn without mnemonics. In fact I have advocated using mnemonics more widely for aspects of Japanese other than kanji.

That is not an alternative to RtK though. That is an alternative to learning Japanese through reading. That is not people who like to learn languages by reading are looking for.

Actually I learn Japanese mostly by reading - or rather I read, and as a consequence I hope I learn a little Japanese（⌒▽⌒)

But certainly learning by reading and other massive input (much of which involves reading) is what I do and try to help others to do. Using mnemonics is certainly not an alternative to learning by reading. It is precisely an adjunct to that very thing.

Quote:That is what an alternative to RtK would have to accomplish: get someone to that same point, faster.  Without such an alternative, criticizing RtK is pointless. If it's the only option to accomplish the task, then it's by default the best option. Not saying it is, by the way...but what is a faster option (not to learn Japanese, but to accomplish the task that RtK sets out to accomplish)?

I would agree that if you want to do exactly what Heisig-sensei sets out to teach (i.e. learn all the kanji in advance without knowing any Japanese), then the Heisig method may well be the best tool for the job (I can't say for sure as I have never set out to do that particular job).

The question really is whether one does want to begin that way or not. There is no right or wrong here; it is a matter of the approach one prefers to take and what suits one's own learning style.

I fully accept that Heisig is the right method for a lot of people. I also think there are a lot of people for whom it isn't the right method.

(2016-06-08, 8:14 am)Aikynaro Wrote:

(2016-06-08, 6:44 am)Stansfield123 Wrote:

(2016-06-06, 7:58 am)Aikynaro Wrote: Well, it's not necessary to know kanji to read, because furigana

I'm aware of furigana. But I'm interested in an alternative way to learn to read Japanese as it is commonly written.

The thing with starting out reading things with extensive furigana is that eventually you recognise the words without the furigana - like you don't need to parse every letter of an English word to recognise it as you read, you don't need to know the components that make up kanji as you read.

This is a very important point. A competent reader of English does not look at all the letters of each word. If she did, reading would be painfully slow. It behoves us all to remember that however we start, ultimately, if we are to read Japanese well, we have to get beyond not only mnemonics but also beyond parsing kanji into their components and into recognizing them at a glance.

This isn't an argument for one method or another. Just a fact that is worth bearing in mind.

_____

@Danchan I'd be fascinated to know why Heisig-sensei is wrong philosophically. I have actually dipped into some of his philosophical writings, but currently I don't have the time to read that much English. In my very inept way I felt a few of his points were a little questionable, but I have given so little attention to the philosophical issues concerned that my opinion is currently worthless. I would like to approach some of this in Japanese eventually. (Just an aside. Not trying to take the thread a long-haul flight off-topic!)