(2016-03-01, 10:30 am)PotbellyPig Wrote:(2016-02-28, 12:48 pm)rich_f Wrote:Thanks! I look forward to your impressions of the book. I've been using どんなとき but was thinking of getting this book too if it's useful.(2016-02-20, 11:08 am)foreverunclean Wrote:(2016-02-20, 9:37 am)PotbellyPig Wrote:(2016-02-20, 7:38 am)foreverunclean Wrote: Could you post a link to where the english edition is available to purchase?
If I want english explanations of grammar I usually use this site http://www.imabi.net
http://www.amazon.co.jp/Handbook-Japanes...AD1JEFPMZQ
Awesome! Thanks! Seem's great but I'll be resisting buying it as I have too many grammar books
I have way too many grammar books, so I'm already beyond saving. Out of curiosity, I ordered the EN version of 日本語文型辞典. It should come in a few days, I'll give some impressions/thoughts when I get it. I'm curious to see if it's better or worse than どんなとき as well as the the JP version of the book. If it's as good as the JP version of 日本語文型辞典, then it would be a great resource for beginning/intermediate level learners before they go monolingual.
TL;DR: As a long time fan of どんなとき, I can't recommend it over 日本語文型辞典's EN version. Even after only looking at it for about an hour or so, it's obvious that the EN version of 日本語文型辞典 is clearly better (with caveats below for monolingual learners.)
So it just showed up a little while ago, and giving it a cursory once-over, it's the same as the JP version of 日本語文型辞典, but with straight-up EN translations added for definitions and example sentences, and JP definitions have been removed. Some of you will like that, some of you will hate that.
For beginners and for the really esoteric stuff, that's a good thing. But if you're used to learning monolingually, you will probably be dissatisfied that they ditched the JP definitions completely, and you should stick with the old version.
My guess is that they did it to keep the page count roughly the same. (690-ish for the old version, a little over 730 pages for the EN version.) If they had kept the JP definitions in, I bet it would have easily boosted over the 1,000 page barrier.
If you really need the JP definitions, buy the old version. There really isn't any other difference between the two books that I can find. Even the example sentences are the same. (Also, the old version is a little cheaper.)
I think they did an excellent job on the EN translations I've read so far, though. The language is clear and easily understandable, no "weird English" is in there that I could find from scanning through it, and it's just overall much more thorough than どんなとき.
Look at にたえない's definition. (I picked it at random.)
どんなとき: (can't bear) 1)Inability to bear seeing or hearing something unpleasant. 2) Only appends to some limited verbs such as 見る and 聞く, etc.
日本語文型辞典: 1) Expresses the meaning that it is hard to see or bear something because its state is dreadful. Can be used with a few specific types of verbs, such as 見る, 読む, and 正視する. 2) With some limited types of nouns, such as 感謝 (gratitude) and 感激 ((the feeling of being) deeply moved), Nにたえない is used to emphasize the meaning of the noun. Usually used in formal speech.
So... どんなとき doesn't even include the second definition for use in formal speech, which pops up every now and then. And the "second" definition it has is just to explain what verbs it takes.
I just think the 日本語文型辞典 is overall easier to comprehend and is more thorough, without becoming a novel. It also has EN translations of example sentences, which you won't get from the older version of 日本語文型辞典, or from どんなとき either! Sentence miners who want EN translations will love this bit.
In short, you get coverage of "almost 3,000 grammar points" (according to the obi), you get solid EN definitions, EN sentence translations, JP editorial staff, and the book comes in around 3,200 yen. (Dirt cheap, but still high quality.) So all of the goodness of 日本語文型辞典, but with an easier approach to the contents for people who can't handle monolingual learning yet.
So I'd say it's not only better than どんなとき, it's probably the best grammar dictionary out there now for anyone wanting to learn Japanese. (Yes, it's better than the DoJG series, because it costs 1/3 the price, and doesn't skimp on coverage, but doesn't overwhelm, either.) Also, unlike どんなとき, the definitions are clearer and slightly more verbose.
One thing どんなとき does that I like is that it provides a JLPT level next to each definition. (N1, N2, N4, etc.) That's handy!
The only weak points for this EN edition of 日本語文型辞典 are for monolingual learners, or people who speak Korean or Chinese, and can't speak English well enough to benefit from the book. They should stick with the monolingual version of 日本語文型辞典, or どんなとき if they're only N5-N3 level.
Another really nice thing they did-- they added a drifting black index mark on the side of each page so you can look up words faster.
I didn't mean to write a book, but it's a fine grammar dictionary. If you're buying one, and you need EN support, then this should be it. I wish I had this when I was first starting out!
Edited: 2016-03-01, 3:12 pm