(2015-12-28, 12:43 pm)angelneko Wrote:(2015-12-23, 3:45 am)Raschaverak Wrote: I always thought that actual actual language proficiency, and language exams go hand in hand. If you pass a high-level exam, you should be able to get by (at least). in that language in a native environment. JLPT is tricky in this aspect, since it has no production part (oral, writing), but I think that this only applies to people who are not good at production to begin with. I would think that most people should have no problem with production, even if it's not tested. The actual capability might be lower than the tested skills, but at least the JLPT works in this respect: If you've passed, let's say N1, you should be able to speak/write at least on a N3 level, even if it was never officially tested. Just my 2 cents.
Quote:actual language proficiency and language exams go hand in hand
I almost feel like you're trolling. If you've ever read people's reviews of JLPT, there is a frequently expressed sentiment that Chinese test takers have an (obviously) unfair advantage on the written part of the exam. Not only that, but people study hard core for exams - memorizing material, only to forget it all right after the exam. Scores come out, people pass N1, but it doesn't mean they have a functional grasp of the language. To me, the test is just a marker. My proficiency is marked by my score, but my score does not encompass all that is my proficiency.
Quote:most people should have no problem with production
Again, if you've ever scoured the internet in a quest to learn "natural Japanese", many people will tell you - you cannot literally translate EN->JP.
JLPT is almost counter intuitive to natural language learning. The test teaches you to memorize thousands of kanji, vocab words, and grammar points. At no time does it teach you how to put things together or differentiate between nuances, things which are invaluable to speaking like a native.
I almost feel like you are trolling by saying that I'm trolling....
First of, no I don't really scour the internet, mostly because I'm busy doing actual work (you know, studying Japanese, ect.) thus I don't have time for that.
Second, I don't really care what other people say in this regard, because: you only find on the internet what you are looking for. If you are looking for people who complain that they cannot speak Japanese even though they've passed N1 or whatever, you will find that, and biasing your own opinion of the matter.
If you have taken and passed ANY JLPT test, then ask yourself: are you unable to speak / write at all? No? Then maybe it's time to focus your efforts and time into actual work, rather than reading useless stuff on the net.
If you passed the test you should be able to speak to some extent as well. There are always exceptions though, but forming an opinion based on exceptions is....not good.
JLPT is the OFFICIAL proficiency test for the Japanese language accredited in Japan (and Japanese companies), as well the other countries. I just don't see the logic, acknowledging something, while knowing it doesn't entirely show what it supposed to? Nah, come on.