I finished RTK1 a few weeks ago and now I'm systematically reviewing everything.

I find it useful to periodically practice writing the kanji in the following keyword groups, since I sometimes confused these in the past. As I review I tweak my stories as needed.

I thought I'd pass this along in case someone finds it useful:

captive/captured

seduce/entice/urge/encourage/persuade/exhort

skin/pelt/leather/flesh

teenager/juvenile/junior

attractive/exquisite/delusion/beautiful

occasion/ceremony/celebration

picture/brush stroke

respect/pay respects

silk/silk worm

subsititute/change/trade/lend/borrow/freight/exchange/detained/interchange/inter

undefiled/pure

lie down/sleep

leap/hop/jump/tread/step

oversee/watch over/look to

call/shout/yell/beckon/call on/erupt

twist/winding/rotation

slave/retainer

income/earnings/profit/wealth/treasure/savings/benefit

say/word/tale/speaketh/sayeth

summit/pinnacle/peak

time/clock

column/column [primitive]/pillar/ridge pole

quick/rapidly/swift

assault/beat/strike/hit/abuse

ascend/rise up/rising sun

meritorious deed/consolation/confer/merit

thin/slender

grade/rank/class/level/stand

vapor/steam/spirit/spirits/vague

camp/regiment

admonish/accusation/chastise/blame/censure/lie

arrest/apprehend/stop/kidnap

before/beforehand

instructions/guidance/obey/abide by

clear/clear up

clothing/garment

nightbreak/night/nightfall/evening/darkness

day/daybreak/daytime

inspection/examination/test/exam/checkup/verification/investigate/perusal

longevity/long time/long/long distance

dainty/delicate

rowing/rowboat/row

complete/finish/end/perfect

thing/matter

sagaciious/auspicious

ration/proportion

swamp/creek/lake/river/stream/open sea/ocean/sea/lagoon/bay/harbor

pledge/vow/promise

pluck/pick up/push/insert/plant

place/location/spot

inflammation/swell/expand/grow up/build/create/fabricate/calculate/design

fire/lamp/burn/hearth/oven fire

eternity/constancy/permanence

system/scheme/solution/plot/plan

plank/lumber/timber tree/sheet of...

connection/join/meeting

stop-over/inn

groundbreaking/fundamentals

soil/ground/clod/dirty/mud

manipulate/manoeuver

accept/receive

entrust/impart

inverted/upright/upside down in a row

toil/inferiority/achievement

wonder/delight

Mr./Dr./Esqu.

floor/storey/level/stratum

storehouse/warehouse/godown

cottage/pagoda/villa/government office/Bldg./pavilion/house

damp/wet

pit/hole/ditch/depression

destroy/demolition/disaster/laid waste/perish/death/departed/bequeath/inherit/
discard/drown/kill/exhaust/extinguish/finish/end/stop

thirsty/drought/dry/parched

ride/take along/carry/transport/load

ray/radiance/shining/illuminate/bright/sparkle

employ/use/employee

spindle/axis/turn/rotation/circle/round

cape/promontory/strand/headland/hillock/hill/Point/summit/mountain peak

A list I wish I would have been sure to consult as I was going through the keywords. It's too easy to make stories that leave you confused later. Luckily the problem goes away as soon as you learn a couple words that use the kanji in question.

Heh, I have my own list that I've been keeping up as I go along. It's one of the reasons I sometimes substitute my own keywords. (The other is when I just can't get useful stories out of Heisig's.)

Oh yeah, I encountered this problem as well, with some of those words. The way I addressed it was a little less sophisticated: I simply suspended cards that, for whatever reason, confused me. I doubt it affected my progress much.

This isn't engineering, where if you miss a tiny little detail, the plane is gonna crash with 300 passengers on board. This is language learning. The details are infinite, and getting lost in them is what's going to hurt you, not missing things here and there. Focus on advancing, not on being thorough.

Your goal is to eat up as much material as possible, whatever that material may be, not to eat up all the material in textbooks X, Y and Z. An easy Kanji/word is worth the same as a hard Kanji, and the easy ones are gonna take many times less effort. So ignore the hard ones.

oops, wrong thread

Stansfield123 Wrote:The details are infinite, and getting lost in them is what's going to hurt you, not missing things here and there. Focus on advancing, not on being thorough.

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I consider this kind of a fun exercise actually. And as I see it, the purpose of getting through RTK1 is to be able to link each kanji to its own keyword, in order to be able to make reference to a specific kanji later on when reading/writing. I figure, RTK1 is a finite number of kanji (2,042 in the edition I'm using) so why not roll up your sleeves and learn all of them thoroughly?

I find that comparing and contrasting different kanji as I do above really helps with the learning process.

For example, while I'm sitting at my desk studying, I'll go through the "examination" group and say "examination" is a tree doctor probing a tree's wood with an awl looking for rotten spots in the wood while "investigation" is investigating the shelf-like fungus growing at the base of the tree while "verification" is probing the horse's hoof with an awl to make sure it's nice and solid etc.

Silly? Well, when I'm learning and keeping track of compounds it's helpful to tag kanji A as investigation and kanji B as verification, so it's extremely helpful.

Now this raises a question in my mind: Does Anki have the capability of creating groups as I have done above?

john555 Wrote:

Stansfield123 Wrote:The details are infinite, and getting lost in them is what's going to hurt you, not missing things here and there. Focus on advancing, not on being thorough.

.

I consider this kind of a fun exercise actually. And as I see it, the purpose of getting through RTK1 is to be able to link each kanji to its own keyword, in order to be able to make reference to a specific kanji later on when reading/writing. I figure, RTK1 is a finite number of kanji (2,042 in the edition I'm using) so why not roll up your sleeves and learn all of them thoroughly?

The purpose of RtK is to familiarize you with a large number of Kanji. It's not to familiarize you with these particular ones. Yes, it's a fairly good choice of 2042 important Kanji, but it's not a definitive choice. If 50 of the 2042 Kanji were to be taken out at random, and replaced by others, it would not change anything.

In fact, if you replaced 50 of the most troublesome Kanji with some common Kanji that aren't in there (like 檎, 鍵, 誰), you'd not only need to study less, but would also gain more.

Even if some of the Kanji you happen to drop comes up in a word you're learning, it still doesn't matter, because guess what: as soon as you finish RtK1, you have to start adding new Kanji to your deck, that isn't in RtK1, anyway. I probably added the Kanji I listed above in the first week after finishing RtK1. So, if something you drop comes up, you can just learn it then. And at that point the confusion is gonna be gone, because you have some context to work with, and you know exactly what the difference is between Kanji with synonymous meanings.

john555 Wrote:Silly? Well, when I'm learning and keeping track of compounds it's helpful to tag kanji A as investigation and kanji B as verification, so it's extremely helpful.

Of course it's helpful. Everything's helpful. Memorizing the dictionary would be helpful too. The question is, is it helpful enough to be cost efficient?

験 has a signal primitive in it for the "ケン" reading (which, once you note that "icepick" is a signal primitive, is automatic knowledge: 剣 is sword, and it's also in 剣道 = kendou, which is called the same thing in English - there's no way you're forgetting that everything with "icepick" in it is read "ken"). Trust me, this is something you'll know pretty early on into vocab learning. It's a very common signal primitive.

Once you know that, that helps you distinguish it from 査, which doesn't have that signal primitive. Plus, 査 shows up in 調査 (chousa), which means investigation, and "sa" is its only reading. There's no confusing them.

When learning a Kanji with Heisig is particularly difficult, just suspend it. It'll probably become easier later on, once you know about signal primitives and have a vocab word or two to associate it with. Stop being a perfectionist about language learning, it's not gonna work out well.

Stansfield123 Wrote:When learning a Kanji with Heisig is particularly difficult, just suspend it. It'll probably become easier later on, once you know about signal primitives and have a vocab word or two to associate it with. Stop being a perfectionist about language learning, it's not gonna work out well.

Hey there, thanks for your posts, let's just agree to disagree .

Great post, Stansfield. You explained it pretty well.

What I found kind of amusing is, I learned Kanji via RTK and didn't recognize them when I did! For example, I had a weird story of someone holding a temple on their finger or something, and I forgot it over and over again, and then my girlfriend saw me doing my ANKI session and said 持つ, and then it came to me that I can read this Kanji already and could for months or years, but I didn't make the connection.

This is what will also happen once you start to learn vocabulary after Heisig. All your problem Kanji will become meaningful, because they will have a purpose instead of being the purpose.

john555 Wrote:I find it useful to periodically practice writing the kanji in the following keyword groups, since I sometimes confused these in the past. As I review I tweak my stories as needed.

The number of times my finger needed to spin the scroll wheel to get to the bottom of this list is the number of hits my happiness just took. KO. Stansfield123's cogent argument will not distract me with its reasonableness: I hate needlessly missing my unauthentic keyword->kanji reps in Anki!

Here's some that's been bugging me:

- yearn/hanker/pining/longing
- grace/graceful

My solution has been to change the keywords to something more concrete. Instead of warehouse/storehouse/godown, we have "data warehouse", "storage closet", and "Chandni Chowk" ("chowk" and "godown" both being Indian words I associate). THIS is the fun part: creatively finding interesting connections and remembering them.

Hi John,

Thanks for this tricky list of keywords. I also make a written list of troublesome kanji and, interestingly, our lists barely coincide.

So I will just focus on my own "problem children."

I like your idea of mapping out problem kanji and revisiting them. These 2200 kanji are so important I don't think it is appropriate to allow them to leech.

Do you (or others who have completed "studying" RTK1) have a view on reviewing outside the SRS from time to time (e.g. cramming)? I know the SRS should make this effort a waste but. . .