Hello, I'm Harimogura and a long time lurker. One of my long term goals is to become literate in Japanese. I got to the point where I can read easy manga and since then my Japanese has become stagnant. Life happened and I only did enough Anki reviews and stuff in Japanese and to retain what I've learned.

I decided that what I need is a specific goal and plan. My goal is to obtain a 6th grade reading level in a year or less. The clock starts ticking once I get my plan and materials together. I'm thinking of spending half of my study time with extensive reading and the other half studying for the KanKen (Levels 10 through 5). By achieving a 6th grade reading level I should be ready for light novels, right? I have a more detailed plan below. Any tips, suggestions, advice, comments, personal anecdotes, or wisdom that you guys can share is greatly appreciated.

1) Extensive Reading - Reading lots of fairly easy material with minimal assistance from a dictionary. Even though this is more expensive than intensive reading (you go through more books), it appeals to me more. I'm afraid that that I would quickly burn out with intensive reading.

I saw a post by Aijin (http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...#pid125337) recommending various books for beginners. After doing some research on the series that are meant for Japanese children in elementary school I found these...

• 10分で読める：There are various sets of these that go through grade 1-6. They are お話、伝記、物語、and 名作. There are also some individual books that are not assigned a specific grade level such as こわい話 and すいり・たんていの話。
• なぜ？どうして？：There are two sets that have book that go from grade 1-6. The sets are 科学の話 and 身近なぎもん。Like the other series, there are also individual books without a grade level listed. Two examples of these are 宇宙のお話 and 動物のお話。
• 知ってびきり！：As far as I know there are only individual books that are written for elementary school children. The 漢字はじまり物語 and ことばはじまり物語 look like they would be especially interesting for Japanese learners.

Has anyone here read any of these? What did you think? What is the reading level for the ungraded books (such as なぜ？どうして？宇宙のお話)? I know that it should be somewhere in the elementary grades. So far I have found some of these available on YesAsia and all of them from Honto. I think Honto might be cheaper but it's hard to tell because I'm not sure what the price of shipping is to America. Where is the cheapest place to buy them? I'm not really sure how many books I should get. I'm thinking at least three complete sets and a few of the other individual volumes that seem interesting to me. Buying lots of books is expensive but compared to taking a class its quite cheap and I can also reread my books or share them with friends.

2) Kanken - This seems like a great way to learn vocabulary and because of the way the levels are divided up it will be easy for me to determine when I am at a 6th grade level. I know that Kanken doesn't only test proper readings but also writing the kanji. I think this is good because kanji recognition is easier if you know how to produce the kanji.

I'm thinking of buying Kanken DS 3 Deluxe. It has plenty of practice tests and I can enter the problems into Anki that I get wrong. Are the Kanken DS 3 Deluxe's practice tests a good measure for the actual test? I'm not planning on taking the actual tests but I would like to know that I could pass them if I ever change my mind.

I've heard that 漢字学習ステップand 漢字分野別問題集 books are really good but the DS game is much cheaper at $32. Maybe if was actually going to take the tests I wouldn't cheap out so much but with the DS game I could save money that can be used instead for extensive reading. Plus the DS is pretty convenient to carry around. I'm borrowing the original version of Tadashii Kanji Kakitori-kun from a friend while she is in California and its pretty good. I like the how it has exercises where you can focus on vocabulary that use a specific kanji. It seems that Kanken DS 3 Deluxe would make a nice compliment to Kakitori-kun because Kanken DS 3 Deluxes is mostly about review and testing while Kakitori-kun is nice for the initial studying of vocabulary.

Do you guys think this is a good plan? Is it too much for one year? Too little? Sorry that this is so long. As I said before any advice would be great.

[s0apgun]

My advice is to start reading light novels NOW! Don't wait until you done enough of X so that you can start Y.

I think it's a great plan. I am doing something very similar.

I am only half way through RTK, but itching to get literate, so I have taken to reading kids novels.

I am about to finish "Boku wa Osama" which is basically short stories about a king. It's childish but interesting enough and easy.

If you're in Japan, I suggest you visit BookOff where you can get many used novels for about 100 yen. If you look carefully, elementary school aged books are often labelled on the inside or outside of the cover according the reading level. I've found this really handy for finding suitable books.

I am also working through kanken and highly recommend it. It is very thorough so you can really notice your literacy improving as you do it.

I bought the nintendo DS specifically for kanken as you plan to do, and it is very good. I also bought the Step book, but only went through about half of it. The DS kanken deluxe tests are definitely a good representation of the actual test.

However, now embarking on level 7 I feel I need something beyond just the DS; so I will either get the step book, or use anki with questions from the DS program.

Good luck! My best suggestion is that if I book is TOO hard, or TOO boring, start another one. Make sure you enjoy what you're reading!

s0apgun Wrote:Don't wait until you done enough of X so that you can start Y.

I'd also add to the advice- Read something you've already read in <insert your native language here>, if possible. That should allow you to tackle something above your level and move forward more quickly.

I must be a masochist because I went from a solid base of grammar and textbook vocabulary to reading Murakami Haruki's "A Wild Sheep Chase." But I'd read it in English so it sort of kind of made sense and I picked up patterns and vocabulary as I went along. By the time I was done with one novel I was ready for the next and it was all downhill from there.

(Your results may vary.)

You can do it in a year depending on how much free time you can devote to it. Though I took, and will advise a different path from the others that replied in this thread. I would recommend to try to at least finish core 6k or the equivalent. It really comes down to how many dictionary look ups you can stand. I finished Core 10k completely and have since read about 11 light novels. Even so, my vocabulary deck from the books is at around 5,000 words above from what is in Core 10k. So the more words you know, the less you have to look up. For grammar I did Genki I and II, Tobira (this is great for intermediate grammar and reading practice), then Kanzen Master N2 and N1 Grammar workbooks. Even though they are light novels you will find tons of N2 and N1 grammar elements in them. Like vocabulary, you can look the points up, but sometimes that is even more troublesome than vocabulary lookups.

Anyway that was my path. You can of course start reading native light novels at any point along the line but I waited until near the end to do it. I just didn't have the patience to have to digest every sentence. A lot of people differ so it's all up to you. When you start reading, use Rikaisama or Yomichan if you can because it makes dictionary searches much easier.

[RawToast]

Harimogura Wrote:• 10分で読める：There are various sets of these that go through grade 1-6. They are お話、伝記、物語、and 名作. There are also some individual books that are not assigned a specific grade level such as こわい話 and すいり・たんていの話。
• なぜ？どうして？：There are two sets that have book that go from grade 1-6. The sets are 科学の話 and 身近なぎもん。Like the other series, there are also individual books without a grade level listed. Two examples of these are 宇宙のお話 and 動物のお話。
• 知ってびきり！：As far as I know there are only individual books that are written for elementary school children. The 漢字はじまり物語 and ことばはじまり物語 look like they would be especially interesting for Japanese learners.

Those books make me feel a little silly for buying the graded readers available in the UK I could buy one book for each grade for the price of a single graded reader set, or the entire set for the price of two readers.

Still, reminds me to make a little order from amazon.jp, I could do with some new readers

Quote:Anyway that was my path. You can of course start reading native light novels at any point along the line but I waited until near the end to do it. I just didn't have the patience to have to digest every sentence.

I agree you can start at any point, but when I got to 2000 words in Anki I found reading (even graded readers) so much easier and faster than when I tried with only 1000 words.

I like the Magic Tree House series- I hate typical Japanese manga (look, another series with High School students, yay!) but have enjoyed these. Of course they're not typical Japanese manga because they're translated from English. These kids travel through time and space to different places and have interesting adventures. Here's a link to one: http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E6%81%90%E7%AB%...E3%82%B9+1

Going to the Amazon.co.jp site I see they have Kindle for Japanese now. Any way to hack my current Kindle to read Japanese books?

s0apgun, there is truth to that.

I was looking at the Polyglots vs. Ploynots thread and I realized how silly it was that I wanted to become literate in Japanese and yet I was barely reading anything in Japanese at all. Since then I've been reading at least 30 minutes in Japanese each day. I figured that even on my busiest days I can manage at least an hour of Japanese study (30 minutes or reading and 30 minutes of vocabulary study).

The main reason that I'm reluctant to jump right into light novels is that when I'm reading I want to read. I don't like to be constantly searching for words in a dictionary or be swimming in unknown words. I like the idea of extensive reading where I read books that I understand at least 90%. Its seems to me that the readers for elementary school children could be good so that I have material that's fairly easy to read now...instead of waiting until I have X amount of vocabulary to start reading.

drdunlap, that sound quite challenging. How long did it take you get through your first novel? I guess it makes a certain amount of sense that if you familiar enough with a work that you can remember the whole scene if you just understand a couple of lines. It kind of like how somebody can quote one line from a movie and then everyone who is familiar with it cracks up because they remember the whole scene.

ashman63, You got up Kanken level 7 without RTK? I think I learned about 20 Kanji and then gave up on them until several months later when I discovered RTK. Maybe I'm just a wimp. Glad to hear that the Kanken 3 Deluxe is an accurate representation. Good luck with RTK. The most important thing is momentum. It's okay to slow down but you should never stop.

PotbellyPig and RawToast, I agree that vocabulary is important which is why I plan on spending half of my study time on it. I don't mind studying vocab. I just don't want to spend so much time on it that I don't have time to read. I know that there are lots of options for vocab (Core, 2001KO, Kanken, JLPT). I was thinking about using Kanken because of the convenience of studying on a DS and that it correlates with grade levels. I actually do use some Core. I have all of Core6000 in my deck suspended. When I want make a card for a new word that I've encountered I can just unsuspend it. I'm not sure how much vocabulary I know but I think its at least 3,000.

Captal, that series looks cute. I'll keep it in mind.

[s0apgun]

Harimogura, I felt exactly the same way you did 6 months ago. I couldn't bare reading something I didn't understand too well. In reality I was just making excuses for myself to not jump right into native material. After doing the NHK News EASY Challenge with many others on this forum it really turned into something I enjoyed and looked forward to rather than drilling vocabulary.

Here are 3 things that will help break the barrier on tedious dictionary lookups.

Rikai-Chan for web based reading.
You can also use your drama or anime SRT files with Rikai-chan. See my thread on this for more information.

KanjiTomo OCR. This is absolutely fantastic for reading RAW manga on the computer. http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?p...#pid175835

And a neat little trick TheVinster taught me. http://users.wfu.edu/yipcw/atg/ime/boxed-input.html You can use the Microsoft Japanese IME pad to look up kanji by drawing them. This is useful for reading native hard copy media that don't have furigana for the kanji. It helps move dictionary lookups along faster.

Good luck with your goals! We're all here for you if have more questions. Don't be afraid to start tackling native material today, we have too many useful tools to conquer it! I hope this helps anyone reading.

Harimogura Wrote:ashman63, You got up Kanken level 7 without RTK? I think I learned about 20 Kanji and then gave up on them until several months later when I discovered RTK. Maybe I'm just a wimp. Glad to hear that the Kanken 3 Deluxe is an accurate representation. Good luck with RTK. The most important thing is momentum. It's okay to slow down but you should never stop.

I'm not a beginner. In fact I've learnt Japanese for many many years; just my kanji and literacy have been way behind. My speaking and listening is a lot better than my reading. But it all helped. The first few hundred joyo kanji were already pretty familiar to me. For anyone who hasn't finished RTK, start with kanken level 10, and just go at your own pace. (or wait until you're done with RTK to make it easier! I'm doing them concurrently because I'm impatient, and because I do the kanken tests when my students do them)

As for never stopping RTK - you're absolutely right. I got up to card number 1500 five years ago, then left Japan and stupidly stopped. Now I'm doing it second time around (from the beginning). I must say, even 5 years later, it's much easier than the first time.

http://book.akahoshitakuya.com/

This is a website I've seen talked about in another thread. It's called 読書メーター　(dokusho meetaa, "Reading Meter").

It allows you to log what books you are reading and when.

You also search for and enter into categories which books you:

-are currently reading
-want to read
-have in your reading stockpile
-have finished reading

When you move a book from 'currently reading' to 'finished reading', the website calculates how many pages on average you read per day, based on the days you logged as reading days.

You can also share your thoughts on what you've read and see what other people who have read similar books to you are reading.

I haven't worked out how yet, but I think we can 'friend' each other on the site so we can see what each other are reading.

Mine is: http://book.akahoshitakuya.com/u/388880

Feel free to add me if you like. Japanese literacy, here we come!

Thank you for your encouragement and the links. I'm sorry I didn't reply earlier. I was busy writing a paper for my class.

I was a bit iffy about the news site but it's actually really cool. I guess they figure that children want to read other news besides politics. Thanks for showing me it. I read a couple of articles this morning. It was a nice way to start out the day. =)

KanjiTomo really does look fantastic. Right now I have some dead tree manga that I'm reading but I'll be sure to try it out when I'm reading pixel manga.

I created an account on 読書メーター and I'm now following you, ashman63. So don't be afeared if you see a creeper named 針土竜 on your feed. Its just me.

My profile can be found here -> http://book.akahoshitakuya.com/u/391381

いっしょうけんめいがんばりましょう。