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Need advice what to study - Tori-kun - 2012-09-27
Hey folks,
perhaps you can help me out, as I'm a little bit in a mess right now. As my application for medicine in Germany was rejected and I will have to wait for 12 semesters in order to get a place to study it, I feel like my dream becoming a doctor is becoming more of a nightmare. I feel like I want to study something now, that is just fun to me, with absolutely no regard to what will happen in future in terms of finances, economy, employment.
I'm a fanatic of languages: my mother tongue is German and Russian and ever since primary school I'm learning English. For 3 years I've been learning Japanese and even though I'm not progressing in terms of listening comprehension, I feel like languages are just my world. So my question is, is there a study/field of study, where I could become an interpretor and translator at the same time in even MORE languages (keeping Chinese, Spanish and Arabian in mind currently)?
Need advice what to study - EratiK - 2012-09-27
I guess not, interpretation is it's own field, and is rather difficult: an average guy is just lucky to have one linguistic combination to work with.
But, you could start linguistics. There are so many subfields you're bound to find something interesting that uses all your language abilities (like the contrastive field for example).
Need advice what to study - Zgarbas - 2012-09-27
Linguistics is the kind of thing that sounds amazing in theory but horrible in practice. A few bits and pieces will be fun, but mostly it gets really boring, really fast, and the linguistics community is a big happy barfight that keeps arguing about what an antonym reallyis.
Also, you don't need a degree to be a translator/interpreter. But there is the European master's of translation/interpreting. The thing is it offers you more job security when you're done with it, but it's kind of hard to get into. It goes on a native tongue+L2+L3 basis, but what L2 and L3s you can choose depends on the Uni. usually EU languages. So you have German-English, but have to choose between French/Spanish/Italian for L3, and have to be C2 level to get in. I'm sure I saw a Uni in Nordrhein-Westfalen that offered Japanese as L3, but I'm not sure which it was (Duisburg maybe?). That's the best I can think of.
Need advice what to study - Surreal - 2012-09-27
12 SEMESTERS!?!? That's ***** crazy! Why do you have to wait for that long?
Also warakawa you are a terrible person. Edit: And also a huge troll apparently. Nice ban, high-five Fabrice!
Tori, if you want to get involved with medicine-related work, you could try studying statistics and trying to get into the medical research field, or biomedicine or something. Or maybe you could study medicine abroad?
Need advice what to study - Tori-kun - 2012-09-27
@Surreal: Germany's system is pretty lame. In order to study you need a highschool qualification which is known as "Abitur". If your average (the sum of all points you gathered in the last two years, multiplicated and whatnot.. complicated calculation) mark on that qualification says 1.0 (best), you can study Medicine without waiting to get a place, however, my average was 1.8... not bad either (the worst is 4.0 btw, meaning 'just passed'), however not good enough for any medical-related subject (pharmacy, biomedicine etc.).
Studying abroad is expensive. Studying in Germany is mostly free (especially in the East of Germany like Berlin/Brandenburg/etc.)
I don't know if I could study Medicine in Sweden (in English naturally. Can't speak Swedish) There is an alternative of studying the first 4 semesters of medicine in Hungary at a German uni, however, that would cost like 50k EUR. (my parent's safed money 困ってるよ。きゃー)@Zgarbas: Yeah, it's Uni Duisburg
I will have a look at it again, thanks for your detailed information. I definitely want a safe job.@warawaka: I hate economics and I suck at maths. I basically skipped my maths classes in my last two years. I was lucky, though. 数学の先生は認知症に苦しんでたからさｗ
Need advice what to study - EratiK - 2012-09-27
Here's one of the books I should read for one of my linguistic courses, I assure you it's not boring.
http://www.amazon.com/Conversation-Studies-Natural-Language-Processing/dp/0521659515/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1348774351&sr=1-6&keywords=sdrt
But as Surreal says, maybe you should already get involved in medecine, if that's what you really want to do. You should get your hands on a book list for first years, and start reading, and why not, making anatomy decks...
Need advice what to study - dizmox - 2012-09-27
What about biology?
Edit: Sorry, I just saw someone already mentioned something similar...
Need advice what to study - Tori-kun - 2012-09-28
@dizmox: I wanted to study biology, too, but when I inquired at the agency for work (in German it's called Arbeitsagentur), they said they have too many people who have studied biology (MA) who are unemployed or work on 400€-Basis-Part-Time-Jobs... They are just not "needed" here and they are dependant on research funds
Edit: Btw 1000th post yay
Need advice what to study - undead_saif - 2012-09-28
Tori-kun Wrote:I'm a fanatic of languages: my mother tongue is German and Russian and ever since primary school I'm learning English. For 3 years I've been learning Japanese and even though I'm not progressing in terms of listening comprehension, I feel like languages are just my world. So my question is, is there a study/field of study, where I could become an interpretor and translator at the same time in even MORE languages (keeping Chinese, Spanish and Arabian in mind currently)?Are you sure you're really interested and enthusiastic about languages and not just carried away by having learned three languages automatically (not implying that it's easy though)?
I say search and ask a little more about studying medicine or something related to satisfy your ambition, and if it seems really hard and stressful to do then save yourself and leave it for good!
What other interests do you have?
BTW, many student from here who wish to study Medicine and don't have the grades go to study in Russia or Ukraine, the expenses don't seem to be that high (don't know the exact numbers, but students from mid-class families from a third world country can afford it) and you don't have to waste a language year there.
Need advice what to study - Tori-kun - 2012-09-28
Interests.. I like painting with hands, playing Classical piano, I'm into cooking and I have a good sense for black humour. I read a lot and I like to write poems every now and then, but hey, just hobbies really; nothing you could study and make good money with I think
Need advice what to study - Solaron - 2012-09-28
Tori-kun Wrote:There is an alternative of studying the first 4 semesters of medicine in Hungary at a German uni, however, that would cost like 50k EUR. (my parent's safed money 困ってるよ。きゃー)Are you talking about Pécs, Hungary?
Because I live there. We could study Japanese together
. Jokes aside, even people from Japan come here to study medicine. I don't know how many, however there is certainly at least one of them - I overheard a conversation of his/her tenant: "I don't know how this Japanese kid studies for his exams... oh they must teach in English at the University" or something like that. There was also something about him not going out at all. Maybe he's a hikikomori.All in all, if you have the money, I would advise you to come and study medicine here. Pécs is an agreeable city, we have beautiful girls and I know a place where beer is 200HUF (around €0.70) every Wednesdays
.By the way, this is my first post of mine here, I would like to thank you all for your stories, etc. I'm at 905 kanji, I believe I can finish RTK before Christmas.
Need advice what to study - Tori-kun - 2012-09-28
@Solaron: Wow, thanks for posting! Yeah, I'm talking about the Semmelweis University in Budapest; but there is another one in Szeged and Pécs (i hope i spelt them correctly
). I know, students all over the world come there to study Medicine and as the system in Germany as I stated above, those are there whose parents can afford it (one semester is supposed to cost about 10.000€!! That's 9000€ more than in Germany! )You can email me through the board-mailer here and we can stay in touch, skype etc.. I think the likelihood of me going to Hungary is pretty high considering investing into my medical career is pretty worthwhile.
I cannot speak Hungarian, though, sorry lol
Edit: Budapest would be more comfortable for me in terms of travelling (RyanAir: 20€!). Both Pecs and Szeged seem to be a bit far away from the capital and I would need to have someone driving me around. If you are in Germany (I live in the North near Hamburg) you could couchsurf at my place
Need advice what to study - Surreal - 2012-09-28
Tori-kun Wrote:@Surreal: Germany's system is pretty lame. In order to study you need a highschool qualification which is known as "Abitur". If your average (the sum of all points you gathered in the last two years, multiplicated and whatnot.. complicated calculation) mark on that qualification says 1.0 (best), you can study Medicine without waiting to get a place, however, my average was 1.8... not bad either (the worst is 4.0 btw, meaning 'just passed'), however not good enough for any medical-related subject (pharmacy, biomedicine etc.).The requirements for getting into medicine are basically as high in Sweden as in Germany, if not higher since we don't have the "wheats from the chaff" procedure that they use in France, Spain and I think(?) Germany. Things are changing recently, but the Swedish physicians' association has been lobbying for keeping the number of medical students artificially low to make sure the wages stay high and that means the requirements have become ridiculously high. That also lead to an influx of immigrant doctors meaning the association's plan to keep the wages low doesn't seem to be working out very well in the long run, heh. Anyway, on top of requirements being high, other than select courses that are adapted for exchange students, everything is in Swedish. So unfortunately you're probably right, sorry. (as an aside, I looked it up and it turns out that for all EU citizens, all Swedish education is free. of course, that's not much use if you can't get in...)
Studying abroad is expensive. Studying in Germany is mostly free (especially in the East of Germany like Berlin/Brandenburg/etc.)
In Sweden we have an alternative to using high school grades when applying; "Högskoleprovet", roughly "the college test", which is a one-shot test consisting of Swedish, English and math questions. It's basically a test that's supposed to test your potential instead of your achievements so far. I know there's a corresponding test in Spain, do you have anything like this in Germany?
I was in the same position as you, wanting to study medicine but not having the grades for being accepted, and did Högskoleprovet three times over during a period of two years. In the meantime I took a psychology course and ended up choosing that even though I could've gotten into medicine with the result I got the last time I did the test. But my case is kind of special - I've chosen this field even though I vehemently disagree with what probably the majority of psychologists in Sweden are trying to do or rather their beliefs about what they are capable of and are doing, so I can't really recommend it. You might say it's an acquired taste, I don't regret making the choice I did though. Is your end goal with medicine to become a physician just doing a good job somewhere or are you hoping to get into research? Because as I mentioned earlier, knowing statistics is a really useful tool when doing medical research, even any research really, it's useful in so many diverse fields that you can easily find ways to combine it with anything you'd like. This includes linguistics, evolutionary biology, cell biology, geology... Again, this is if you want to get into the research side of things though.
If you ARE interested in research and think statistics might be something other than totally boring (pure statistics is hard to get excited about for the average person, including me, but once you apply it to something things become FASCINATING), then checking it might be worth it. I know you said you aren't great at math, but that might be because your math education was sub-par or because you developed negative self-beliefs about math skills because of a number of somewhat random events. I used Khan Academy to up my natural sciences knowledge and it made me really understand how much I'd missed during school (mostly because of apathy).
Don't take this as pushing you or telling you what to do! I know just as little about you as everyone else, I'm just trying to pitch in and add to the variety of your possible options
Edit: Whoa whoa Tori hang on, make sure you calculate IN ADVANCE just how much you would be spending on the education and also figure out how you could pay that and over what time-span you would be pay off any loans that you'd be taking. If you're planning on only studying for a year or two in Hungary and then going back to Germany to study the rest, make sure to look up what the regulations regarding that are and if you'd be guaranteed an acceptance when you come back to Germany. Lastly, think about if all the effort and money it will cost is worth the benefits that the alternative of studying in Hungary provides. (and if you DO go and you fail even one exam making things even more expensive I'll hunt you down and punch you in the face)
Editedit: One more thing, you should totally learn Hungarian if you do go, at least if you're staying for more than one year, because otherwise you'll be pretty alienated from the surrounding society and plus, Hungarian is pretty cool. Don't get bogged down by German ex-pat communities where everyone huddles together and live in their little bubble. Trust me, I've seen that shit happen too often, if you learn the language your daily life will be way way more enriched.
Need advice what to study - Tori-kun - 2012-09-28
@Surreal: Thanks for your report about how getting into the medical field is like in Sweden!
You can basically see it like this for Germany:
* Dentalmedicine and normal medicine
* Psychology
* Pharmacy
All of those for fields require an average of basically 1.0-1.1 (That sucks). I'm quite bad at maths and I really hated statistics at school, so no matter how much I would be probably able to apply my theoretical knowledge in a practical way, it would remain boring as it is to me, sorry
I want to become a doc and specialise in oncology. I'm not sure if I will participate in research or not, but - I hope this does not sound strange - seeing people dying, how they change when they have cancer, is really intriguing to me. I had a short internship, which I am going to prolong now until the end of Decembre, and I was working at the oncological station (palliative) and was walking along with the doctors all the time. It was fascinating to me and I was seeing myself in this job so much. It hurts to see that in Germany one cannot unfortunately make one's dreams come true (Note: I think there is a lot of corruption in the medical field in terms of getting accepted at University. It's strictly regulated, but I think there is some backdoor. Just a suspicion, though.)
I might become a paramedic first (which would take 3 years) and then I could get bonus points on my average (like 0.5, then I would have 1.3) and my chances of getting accepted would be pretty high... but not safe
Honestly, waiting for three years seems like lots of pain in the ass and I seriously consider taking the offer of my parents and go to Hungary. The downside of that story: total dependance on my parents and killing their savings. Difficult decision.Edit: Saw your edits, Surreal!
Thanks for making me aware of those two issues. The universities offer a German programme for studying medicine. After two years your chances - if you were good and had good grades - are pretty high getting accepted in a German university as your "waiting time" is being counted as you do not study in Germany but abroad (2 years in Hungary equals to 4 semesters, plus, I have a "Physikum" - a qualification - already and can send off my requests to all 34 universities in Germany. Standard is, you are only allowed to pick 6 -.- ***** the system.)
With Hungarian -- yeah. I heard you could spend a lot of money if you are talking in Hungarian to the guy whose apartment you are renting. 75m2 for 150€ monthly instead of 350€!! lol
Editedit: PLUS, beautiful hungarian girls. Being able to speak hungarian might be a plus (see above) lol
Need advice what to study - undead_saif - 2012-09-28
Is the Russia or Ukraine option way off? Are degrees from there not approved in Germany or have bad value?
And WOW about Psychology being on a par with Medicine! I guess psychologists are way more valued over there than here. Maybe if lived somewhere where psychologists are as respectable as doctors I would've studied psychology!
Surreal Wrote:In the meantime I took a psychology course and ended up choosing that even though I could've gotten into medicine with the result I got the last time I did the test.That's cool!
Surreal Wrote:But my case is kind of special - I've chosen this field even though I vehemently disagree with what probably the majority of psychologists in Sweden are trying to do or rather their beliefs about what they are capable of and are doing, so I can't really recommend it.So why did you continue? I'm interested
Need advice what to study - Surreal - 2012-09-28
Tori-kun Wrote:The downside of that story: total dependance on my parents and killing their savings. Difficult decision.Again, calculate how high the total cost would be, including tuition and accommodation fees (going by what seems to be about average, I know you said the prices vary pretty widely but still), food and travel expenses... Also consider what you'll be doing in the summers and in your free time, are you going to work in the summer, will you work part-time while studying? And then, again in the case you don't decide to do something else than going to Hungary, discuss with your parents whether they are willing and/or able to cover the costs and if/how/when you'll repay them.
Oh, and maybe there's some kind of stipendium to apply for? I don't know all that much about that though, it's something I've been meaning to look up myself for some time really.
Edit: Undead: The short answer is that I am deeply intrigued by the questions that psychology is asking as well as the treatments that it is supposed to exploring and there ARE people in psychology who are doing the kind of work that I'm interested in, it's just that they are in the minority. I love the subject but I dislike many of the popular approaches to it. William James is probably the person who represents the most the kind of psychology I approve, and I like to think that he'd be facepalming SO HARD if he were alive and could attend say a modern social psychologist gathering. The worst thing about modern psychology is probably that "belief" is allowed to play such a great role, leading to meaningless segregation of the psychological community and worse, this type of theory/therapy "allegiance"-creation is justified by arguments that amount to little more than "it maximes placebo effects!". There's so much nonsense. But I'm doing fifth degree digressing here, this isn't the "Surrealus whines about stupid psychology" thread. If you want to ask something more just PM me.
Need advice what to study - Solaron - 2012-09-28
Surreal Wrote:Editedit: One more thing, you should totally learn Hungarian if you do go, at least if you're staying for more than one year, because otherwise you'll be pretty alienated from the surrounding society and plus, Hungarian is pretty cool. Don't get bogged down by German ex-pat communities where everyone huddles together and live in their little bubble. Trust me, I've seen that shit happen too often, if you learn the language your daily life will be way way more enriched.@Tori-kun
That's absolutely true. Without the University of Pécs organizing social events for both foreign and Hungarian students, the two groups would be totally separated. But even this way, the communication usually goes in English. However if you learn or at least try to learn Hungarian, you'll get benefits wherever you go. We Hungarians really don't expect anything from foreigners so we can be easily impressed if you show interest in our language or culture.
(This might help you.)
On the question of which city to study in:
Currently the Medical Faculty of the University of Pécs has the greatest foreign student to Hungarian student ratio: it's over 60%. Which means, there are more foreign medical students than Hungarians here. I don't know why, maybe the "bang for the buck" ratio... however based on this(sorry, its in Hungarian) recent poll, the Medical Faculty of the University of Pécs has the best teachers and the best teacher-to-student ratio. (It also says that other Universities have better students, i.e. they get people with higher high-school graduation scores).
Also, you should think about living costs. Habitation and food can be considerably cheaper (almost half the price) in Pécs than Budapest. Then don't forget about public transport. The subway in Budapest can get pretty depressing (just watch Kontroll. In Pécs, most of the foreigners live in the flats around the University so they can get to their classes in less than half an hour by foot...
Of course, you won't get the opportunities in Pécs that you have in Budapest. Pécs is a somewhat rural place with 160k people while Budapest is a real city with 1.7m+. You'll get more opportunities to socialize and meet people interested in the same things that you are in. If you are into anime/manga, then most of the hungarian AnimeCons take place in Budapest, however a couple of years ago one was held in Pécs. The only "geek shop" (gamer/roleplayer/manga) in Pécs just close on this week while you can find many of those places in Budapest. In Budapest, you can meet practically any nationality, while in Pécs, you have us Hungarians, German students, Swedish students, Asian students, some Arabic students with loads of money and Ferraris and some foreigners who somehow "stuck" here. Oh and gypsies. You should be aware of them if you come to Hungary (I don't care if you label me a racist, ethnic tension is a reality here).
I think in the end it really depends on what "scenery" would you prefer for your life. Would you want to live in buzzing, somewhat depressed but lively city with or a laid back, quasi-mediterranean, feel-good but sometimes a little bit dull town?
(I can't really say anything about Szeged, it's a nice, sunny city I've only been there a couple of times.)
Tori-kun Wrote:Editedit: PLUS, beautiful hungarian girls. Being able to speak hungarian might be a plus (see above) lolYes it is a plus in those situations also, a big plus. However, a quick caveat: hungarian girls can be exceedingly hypergamous.
Edit: Of course I'm open to more personal communication.
Edit2: If you are able to bear the hardcore, militaristic way of study of FSI, you should absolutely check out their Hungarian course. Sorry if it seems like I'm pushing Hungary (I'm just trying to be a good localpatriot
). Actually if I were you I would seriously consider going to Russia (you already know the language). On the other hand I know nothing about the level of education you can get there.
Need advice what to study - Zgarbas - 2012-09-28
Why don't you come to Romania to study medicine? lots of foreigners are doing that lately
. Paid places are like 500$/year, not sure if you'd qualify for the free spots since you're a foreigner. It's really easy to get in, and the cost of living can go as low as 100-200$ a month(including rent) if you're not picky.P.S. Also everybody speaks English here.
Need advice what to study - Tori-kun - 2012-09-28
@Surreal: I think what you said makes a lot of sense and it is exactly what I will go through with my parents in the next days. The calculation will be a horrendous one seeing the numbers.
@Undead: Russia/Ukraine is not an option for me. First, I would feel extremely awkward in a country where I understand the language but cannot put up with how the government would dictate almost the people what to think (I don't want to digress here). Second, the degrees I could get in those countries are not accepted in Germany for some reason I don't care really about.
@Solaron: I don't mind meeting hypergamous girls. I very much like the idea of polyamory, so I think I will have some great experiences in Hungary, don't you think so?
I think if I chose to study Medicine in Hungary, I will need to take courses for "medical hungarian", too, at some point if I'm not mistaken. I think I would enjoy living in a metropole more than living in a small 'village'/town. I'm living pretty far away from a bigger town where you could meet people that have common interests, so I think I'm aspiring for living in a bigger place for the time being. I'm aware that costs would be higher, though...
I had been to Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria (exchange here) before and I'm aware of gipsies. In fact, I am playing gypsy-music (Gypsy Swing) since 6 years on the piano, but I think I will not be able to make friends with any of the gypsies in Hungary, like that. Doubt it. I understand what point you wanted to bring up, Solaron.
Need advice what to study - Tori-kun - 2012-09-28
@Zgabas: I checked University Iascu (sorry, I cannot spell it correctly with my keyboard!) out and it seems that I would need to study full 6 years (instead of only 2 years in Hungary and then going to Germany) in Romania and that would kind of screw up my family's finances right now. 6 years, wow, that's long. After those six years I would have a European standard degree in medicine that would be also accepted in Germany, but my current plan is, staying as short abroad as possible.. and spending as few money as possible. There is an extreme mental (expectational and financial) pressure on me from my parent's side and I have to find out if I can handle it
Lately, lots of Germans as far as I know who want to study Medicine go to the East, if they have the ambition to become a doc and naturally the capital..
Need advice what to study - Zgarbas - 2012-09-28
Yeah, it's a full 6 years. But really, 2 years living in Germany would cost you more than living 6 years here. (I wanted to go to Uni in Germany but then i realized that though my life savings are enough to last me 2 years, it would be gone in less than half a year in Germany)
Edit: Just read the Uni guidelines. Foreign students are charged like crazy! Nvm them.
Need advice what to study - Tori-kun - 2012-09-28
Zgarbas Wrote:Edit: Just read the Uni guidelines. Foreign students are charged like crazy! Nvm them.My words
I think if I were able to study Medicine in Romanian and get a Romanian qualification in order to live and work in Romania -- I think the charge would be less, as you said, but I only know the University of Iascu offering German/English (?) courses for medicine.
Need advice what to study - Zgarbas - 2012-09-28
All of the med schools here have English courses, but they're charging foreign applicants like 5000 euro per year. Crazy.
Need advice what to study - Surreal - 2012-09-28
Tori, just remember that studying abroad is still just one alternative and you shouldn't get too obsessed with it, it has to be something you'll think of afterwards as a conscious decision, not something that felt somehow compulsory. There will still be patients around to give medical care regardless of whether you finish medical school when you're 29, 32 or 35, and there are plenty of things to do with your youth (says the guy who's only 23, haha). What kind of life do you want to look back at when you're 60?
Need advice what to study - IceCream - 2012-09-28
Tori, isn't it possible to just study for a recognised qualification that would give you the results you need, like A-levels or the Baccalaureate? So, you would take 1 year to study and sit the exams, and then you could have the grades you need to get in. I guess there's always the risk you wouldn't get the grades again though?
Otherwise, how about another medicine related field such as nursing, midwifery, nutritionist, epidemiology, etc? Or do they require 1.0 as well in Germany?