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+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: Remembering the Kanji (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-7.html)
+--- Thread: A RevTK "Lite" Option (/thread-993.html)
A RevTK "Lite" Option - woelpad - 2009-05-18
I see. revTKLite, the variable, was badly initialized, which would affect anyone downloading the script for the first time. I changed it to be 0 initially. Change uploaded.
A RevTK "Lite" Option - jmignot - 2009-05-19
Thanks a lot for implementing Maniette's order. It seems to work great for me. What a pity he chose to add this extra character which shifts the rest of the RTK1 sequence by one step. Could this be avoided by manually assigning this rank to one of the high-number RTK3 kanji? Of course it would be cleaner to have a couple of "dummy" Kanji at the end of the original list that could be used as placeholders. Is there no such problem with the other "national" versions? Anyway, a shift by one step only is something I can live with.
A RevTK "Lite" Option - jmignot - 2009-05-19
Hmm!… I seem to have a real problem now : I cannot use the review mode any more : the page loads normally but after the Firefox status bar indicates the loading is completed, the wheel keeps rotating and the card never appears. I am afraid this has to do with the new script versions I have installed. Any idea ?
A RevTK "Lite" Option - woelpad - 2009-05-19
jmignot Wrote:Thanks a lot for implementing Maniette's order. It seems to work great for me. What a pity he chose to add this extra character which shifts the rest of the RTK1 sequence by one step. Could this be avoided by manually assigning this rank to one of the high-number RTK3 kanji? Of course it would be cleaner to have a couple of "dummy" Kanji at the end of the original list that could be used as placeholders. Is there no such problem with the other "national" versions? Anyway, a shift by one step only is something I can live with.Shift by two, actually, for the last few characters
Could be that the book was written before RTK III was on the market.I believe the other books simply follow Heisig order. They also don't give stories for every character like Maniette does, which makes the latter stand out. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Fabrice is going to allow us to add characters not in RTK I and III. If this comes through, we can work something out. The JLPT I list posted by Katsuo has one or two non-RTK characters, so if I want to add that list, I'm running in the same problem. Except, JLPT I doesn't have frame numbers
jmignot Wrote:Hmm!… I seem to have a real problem now : I cannot use the review mode any more : the page loads normally but after the Firefox status bar indicates the loading is completed, the wheel keeps rotating and the card never appears. I am afraid this has to do with the new script versions I have installed. Any idea ?First make sure no other scripts are active. It could be a clash with some script, which may be solvable by reordering. Also, I updated Substitute keywords just yesterday for a similar reason. Make sure you have the latest version. If the problem still persists, check the error console for any bold error messages.
A RevTK "Lite" Option - jmignot - 2009-05-20
I have made some trial and error tests and found that the culprit is the Kanji Links script. It breaks down the Review process wherever I put it in the list of script. If I desactivate it, everything works fine. The list of scripts I have currently installed is
Substitute keywords
Alter sequence
Story with Line Breaks
Add/remove number of flashcards
Count kanji
[Kanji Links]
Hope this can be fixed. I like Kanji links too
A RevTK "Lite" Option - woelpad - 2009-05-20
I updated Kanji Links yesterday too. Didn't you get a pop-up alert yet? Subscribing to the discussion threads for each script is another way (though not guaranteed) to catch the latest news.
A RevTK "Lite" Option - jmignot - 2009-05-20
Thanks. It worked.
I must have somehow missed that update. I have now subscribed the thread so, hopefully, I won't bother you next time.
A RevTK "Lite" Option - jmignot - 2009-05-21
I have just realized that if I want to use Maniette's order, then I have to give up the "Lite" option, which I have been using for a while now (after frame 514) :-((
This is probably asking too much but could anybody think of a method for generating a "Maniette + Lite > 514" list by combining the two reordering lists already present in the script ?
A RevTK "Lite" Option - woelpad - 2009-05-22
It isn't that hard to do, but why not finish RevTK Lite first, before moving on to the remainder of Maniette's RTK I?
In both cases you'll need to create and add your own sequence. Open the script in a text editor and locate the sequences list. Behind the Heisig line, insert your own sequence (the name is yours to choose, but to keep things easy, don't use accented characters or anything else outside the standard ascii range of printable characters, or a single quote for that matter, unless you know what you're doing):
Code:
var sequences = [
{name: 'Remembering the Kanji (Heisig)'},
{name: 'My sequence', sequence: [
]},
...
]E.g. if you're switching after (Heisig, not RevTK Lite) frame number 45, your code will look something like this:
Code:
var sequences = [
{name: 'Remembering the Kanji (Heisig)'},
{name: 'My sequence', sequence: [
[1,18],20,23,24,26,[28,30],[35,45],
[1,40],42,43,41,[44,82],2737,[83,107], ...
]},
...
]Keep a copy of your newly added sequence in another file/location, so that if ever there's an upgrade, you can easily reinsert your sequence into the altered script.
A RevTK "Lite" Option - jmignot - 2009-05-22
Thanks a lot for your detailed reply. I will have to think a bit to find out what kind of sequence I need to enter !
The main reason why I wanted to combine both features (RTK lite + Maniette) was actually because when I used RTK lite alone, I always had trouble looking up kanji in Maniette's book since the numbers would not match. Otherwise (I mean as far as reviewing is concerned) I do not care that much for the difference in the order between the French and the original version, since this affects only a dozen kanji or so. In this sense, I was quite happy with the RTK lite sequence — I might simply go back to it after all…
When I asked my first question, I did not realize that translating the frame numbers and reordering the sequence are basically the same thing from the point of view of the script, and thus cannot be applied separately.
A RevTK "Lite" Option - woelpad - 2009-05-22
Keep a spreadsheet in Maniette order with keywords and kanji, and use that to cross-reference to the book. Or you could use the book's indices. Probably slower, but it will give you the page number as well, something you can also add to the spreadsheet.
A RevTK "Lite" Option - scuda - 2009-06-19
I went ahead and made an Anki deck containing the RTK-Lite list: RTK-Lite Deck
A RevTK "Lite" Option - nest0r - 2009-07-31
So for posterity's sake, is it possible to customize this for Kanji Odyssey? What would you need to do? Make a list of the KO kanji with their corresponding Heisig frame #, then use a spreadsheet to remove duplicates/add whatever RTK3 kanji match KO, then stick it into the .js?
A RevTK "Lite" Option - Nukemarine - 2009-07-31
Should be easy to mesh a KO list with RTK Lite. That's just a little spreadsheet manipulation there.
Heck, with the popularity (and availability) of KO lists either from the book or Smart.fm, it would make a viable substitute. Might even call it the "RTKO List: Guide to Remembering, Writing, 1110 Japanese Kanji and Their Vocabulary."
A RevTK "Lite" Option - nest0r - 2009-07-31
Nukemarine Wrote:Should be easy to mesh a KO list with RTK Lite. That's just a little spreadsheet manipulation there.So let's see, would it work better to use a script to extricate the kanji from the iKO sentences, then sort them by Heisig frame number? Or actually, does smart.fm already have the kanji separated in their API thingy?
Heck, with the popularity (and availability) of KO lists either from the book or Smart.fm, it would make a viable substitute. Might even call it the "RTKO List: Guide to Remembering, Writing, 1110 Japanese Kanji and Their Vocabulary."
I'm sure our list fetishist Katsuo has some kind of master template already figured out complete with the serial numbers of the printers that made the original KO books.
A RevTK "Lite" Option - fugu68 - 2009-07-31
Just discovered RevTK Lite - a great script! I've noticed one small problem: the list of failed kanji (complete list, not the one in the sidebar) - is not correct. Would it be possible to fix this up?
A RevTK "Lite" Option - woelpad - 2009-07-31
I could, but my current copy is geared towards the test site. In the Greasemonkey options on the My Profile page, you can enter a * for Failed Kanji List Length. As such all failed kanji become accessible from the side bar. That should be good enough, no?
A RevTK "Lite" Option - fugu68 - 2009-07-31
Yes, that's just what I needed - thanks for the tip!
A RevTK "Lite" Option - Oniichan - 2009-08-01
nest0r Wrote:Ask and you shall receive. Well, I modified Woelpad's script so that it only lists the ko2001 kanjis from the books (so 1-1110). Actually, I haven't figured out how to include kanji numbers 930, 898 or 810 (which correspond to Heisig numbers 2709, 2712 and 2736 respectively.) You can still view them when they are included in the script by typing in the appropriate Heisig #. But, if you use the arrow key to move up from #2025 (the last RTK 1 kanji found in ko2001), you get 17 instead of 2709. I.e. you go to the first kanji skipped by the script in lite mode. Perhaps someone knows how to fix this? Anyway, I will post either the script or a link to it shortly.Nukemarine Wrote:Should be easy to mesh a KO list with RTK Lite. That's just a little spreadsheet manipulation there.So let's see, would it work better to use a script to extricate the kanji from the iKO sentences, then sort them by Heisig frame number? Or actually, does smart.fm already have the kanji separated in their API thingy?
Heck, with the popularity (and availability) of KO lists either from the book or Smart.fm, it would make a viable substitute. Might even call it the "RTKO List: Guide to Remembering, Writing, 1110 Japanese Kanji and Their Vocabulary."
I'm sure our list fetishist Katsuo has some kind of master template already figured out complete with the serial numbers of the printers that made the original KO books.
A RevTK "Lite" Option - Oniichan - 2009-08-01
Updated script:
Here's the link to the modified script http://www.mediafire.com/?kmm2bw1bozn Once again, this is Woelpad's script modified to just include the first 1110 kanji from the ko2001 books. I modified it for my personal use but thought I'd share it with the group. Woelpad, feel free to create a new script using the number list contained within this script for an "RTKO" script.
A RevTK "Lite" Option - Nukemarine - 2009-08-01
nest0r Wrote:I'm not quite sure what you're asking. I assume a person would learn the 1100 or so kanji that'll be needed for RTKlite/KO. After that, you move into learning the vocabulary from KO 2001 via Smart.fm list. After that, fill in some basic grammar rules via Tae Kim sentences.Nukemarine Wrote:Should be easy to mesh a KO list with RTK Lite. That's just a little spreadsheet manipulation there.So let's see, would it work better to use a script to extricate the kanji from the iKO sentences, then sort them by Heisig frame number? Or actually, does smart.fm already have the kanji separated in their API thingy?
Heck, with the popularity (and availability) of KO lists either from the book or Smart.fm, it would make a viable substitute. Might even call it the "RTKO List: Guide to Remembering, Writing, 1110 Japanese Kanji and Their Vocabulary."
I'm sure our list fetishist Katsuo has some kind of master template already figured out complete with the serial numbers of the printers that made the original KO books.
In other words:
1. Use RTK order to efficiently learn Kanji. These will be limited to Kanji from KO 2001 (and necessary primitive kanji's). Should take 100 study hours.
2. Use the KO2001 order to efficiently learn basic Vocabulary (I'd say just 1000 to 2000). If you come across new kanji during this time, activate them in your RTK deck. Should take 100 to 200 study hours.
3. Use Tae Kim sentences to efficiently learn basic grammar (maybe first two sections of 500 sentences). If you come across new words at this time (that exist in your vocabulary deck), activate them. If you come across new kanji, activate those in your RTK deck. Should take about 100 study hours.
4. Use subs2srs and begin real sentence mining. Aim for 90% comprehension of the episode or movie. If you come across new Kanji and Vocabulary that exists in your RTK or Vocabulary decks, activate them. Otherwise, add them as notes in answer field. From personal experience should take about 10 to 20 hours per one hour episode (less time as you activate more vocabulary, grammar and kanji).
Sorry for going so far with the response. I've been in a teaching mood lately for some reason.
A RevTK "Lite" Option - Nukemarine - 2009-08-01
Oniichan Wrote:Here's the link to the modified script http://www.mediafire.com/?diemjmzohy2 Once again, this is Woelpad's script modified to just include the first 1110 kanji from the ko2001 books. I modified it for my personal use but thought I'd share it with the group. Woelpad, feel free to create a new script using the number list contained within this script for an "RTKO" script.Oni, I've not looked at your list, but I'm assuming it's missing Kanji that can be used as primitives in KO2001 kanji. Not an easy task as it's a number of sweeps through RTK figuring out which primitives will be needed.
A RevTK "Lite" Option - nest0r - 2009-08-01
Nukemarine Wrote:Ehhe, no, that's not what I was asking. I think it's moot now though, looks like Oni came through. Now I can fully recommend my way to ppl starting out, which I think is better ^_^: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?pid=63983#pid63983nest0r Wrote:I'm not quite sure what you're asking. I assume a person would learn the 1100 or so kanji that'll be needed for RTKlite/KO. After that, you move into learning the vocabulary from KO 2001 via Smart.fm list. After that, fill in some basic grammar rules via Tae Kim sentences.Nukemarine Wrote:Should be easy to mesh a KO list with RTK Lite. That's just a little spreadsheet manipulation there.So let's see, would it work better to use a script to extricate the kanji from the iKO sentences, then sort them by Heisig frame number? Or actually, does smart.fm already have the kanji separated in their API thingy?
Heck, with the popularity (and availability) of KO lists either from the book or Smart.fm, it would make a viable substitute. Might even call it the "RTKO List: Guide to Remembering, Writing, 1110 Japanese Kanji and Their Vocabulary."
I'm sure our list fetishist Katsuo has some kind of master template already figured out complete with the serial numbers of the printers that made the original KO books.
...
A RevTK "Lite" Option - Oniichan - 2009-08-01
Nukemarine Wrote:You are correct sir! Thanks for pointing that out. Here is the list of kanji primitives that Woelpad listed on the first page of this thread. I've added the Heisig numbers to them as well so it is one easy step to add them to the script. However, there are probably primitives in this list necessary for JPLT but not needed for ko2001 and vice versa. Could anyone lend a hand sorting these?Oniichan Wrote:Here's the link to the modified script http://www.mediafire.com/?kmm2bw1bozn Once again, this is Woelpad's script modified to just include the first 1110 kanji from the ko2001 books. I modified it for my personal use but thought I'd share it with the group. Woelpad, feel free to create a new script using the number list contained within this script for an "RTKO" script.Oni, I've not looked at your list, but I'm assuming it's missing Kanji that can be used as primitives in KO2001 kanji. Not an easy task as it's a number of sweeps through RTK figuring out which primitives will be needed.
吾 17,冒 18,呂 24,旦 30,舌 41,升 42,寸 45,博 47,頁 60,凡 62,句 65,勺 68,乙 71,刀 83,刃 84,昭 87,丁 91,貫 102,肖 114,奇 126,圭 155,炎 162,里 173,苗 234,呈 262,冗 300,亭 311,舎 316,士 319,吉 320,茂 360,是 388,匕 444,昆 447,旨 455,乞 462,曽 501,廷 508,己 525,羊 547,忍 597,憂 616,我 640,義 641,戒 676,刑 679,乃 686,及 688,丈 691,吏 693,又 696,奴 702,爪 727,至 753,丙 1020,勿 1049,尼 1054,屈 1060,尺 1070,斤 1125,斗 1177,廿 1190,矢 1220,矛 1225,弓 1231,朽 1243,孝 1253,穴 1316,丘 1329,幾 1381,玄 1383,系 1391,卸 1397,厄 1415,宛 1419,酉 1427,豆 1440,即 1462,凶 1490,亥 1519,契 1549,奉 1573,垂 1582,票 1606,彦 1716,斉 1729,洪 1799,井 1806,亜 1809,氏 1828,呉 1897,免 1972
Update: all of these primitives have been added to the script in the above link.
A RevTK "Lite" Option - Oniichan - 2009-08-01
Oops! I meant JLPT not JPLT.