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programming background - tashippy - 2013-02-14

I've noticed that a lot of people here have programming skills and interests, and that they use said skills in helping to make their studies more efficient. I have no such programming skills, but I'm becoming intrigued and seeing the value in computer know-how in general for creating processes to expedite mundane or inefficient tasks.
so my question is: when did you become interested in programming/computers/science and what was the catalyst of your proficiency? what was the thing you loved doing that you learned programming to accomplish? i know at least one person in these forums would say that catalyst was studying japanese.

programming background - partner55083777 - 2013-02-15

Hyperborea Wrote:Learning to program well takes a long time and learning to build bigger systems takes even longer and most programmers never really get good at that. Taking the time to learn to do it well just for Japanese is time misspent. If you enjoy it then do it. I've never found a really good programmer who didn't get into it because they loved it. Learning the basics as tools for doing other things then that can be useful.
This is so true, haha.


I would personally recommend Python as a good starting language for a couple reasons:

1. It's easy to learn. It's often used as the language to teach CS 101 classes at colleges (not all colleges, of course).
2. It's powerful. You can do a lot with it.
3. I often use Python to fix up Anki decks. A lot of the stuff I do could be done in Excel, but there are definitely some things that are so much easier to do in Python.
4. Anki itself is written in Python. If you learn Python, you are one step closer to writting plugins for Anki. (I wouldn't say this is a simple task for a beginner, but it's not totally out of the question if you're persistent.)

programming background - mourei - 2013-02-15

MIT OpenCourseWare offers some good online lectures for Computer Science. Their introductory courses use Python, as well.

programming background - Zgarbas - 2013-02-15

I got into programming in 2003 (C++ and Pascal), did the school textbooks...and then fell into a slump because there were very few resources around, I was already years ahead of what we did in school and had no one to help me out, and any practical application was alien to me, since I basically knew how to calculate things using C++, not actually programming anything (started C# at one point but again, too few resources). Forgot everything.
Of course, with so many programming resources online this wouldn't be a problem these days. All you need is time, interest and dedication.

programming background - Marumaru - 2013-02-15

http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%81%9F%E3%81%AE%E3%81%97%E3%81%84Ruby-%E7%AC%AC3%E7%89%88-%E9%AB%98%E6%A9%8B-%E5%BE%81%E7%BE%A9/dp/4797357401/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360932424&sr=8-1

programming background - partner55083777 - 2013-02-15

Marumaru Wrote:http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%81%9F%E3%81%AE%E3%81%97%E3%81%84Ruby-%E7%AC%AC3%E7%89%88-%E9%AB%98%E6%A9%8B-%E5%BE%81%E7%BE%A9/dp/4797357401/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360932424&sr=8-1
You really shouldn't do drive-by linking without at least some form of explanation.

(Here's the explanation: Ruby is a programming/scripting language developed by a Japanese guy. From what I can tell, it's pretty popular in Japan (well, it's popular all over the world because of Rails). Ruby would be another good language to learn as a beginning language, but there's really no reason why you couldn't get a book about almost any programming language in Japanese.)

programming background - Javizy - 2013-02-15

Udacity has a CS101 course (and other CS ones) that you can take any time at your own pace. Coursera has had some introductory CS courses, but you have to follow a set class schedule. I've done one course on there and the format is great, so I'd recommend it if you're interested in any of the topics on there. If you have Udacity CS101 level programming knowledge, you can do some interesting courses on Coursera, but they do require quite a time commitment.

programming background - Marumaru - 2013-02-15

partner55083777 Wrote:
Marumaru Wrote:http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%81%9F%E3%81%AE%E3%81%97%E3%81%84Ruby-%E7%AC%AC3%E7%89%88-%E9%AB%98%E6%A9%8B-%E5%BE%81%E7%BE%A9/dp/4797357401/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360932424&sr=8-1
You really shouldn't do drive-by linking without at least some form of explanation.

(Here's the explanation: Ruby is a programming/scripting language developed by a Japanese guy. From what I can tell, it's pretty popular in Japan (well, it's popular all over the world because of Rails). Ruby would be another good language to learn as a beginning language, but there's really no reason why you couldn't get a book about almost any programming language in Japanese.)
Ah, because of piracy and stuff, わかった.

As for Ruby, the fact that is Japanese was really compelling to me Smile

programming background - vix86 - 2013-02-15

tashippy Wrote:so my question is: when did you become interested in programming/computers/science and what was the catalyst of your proficiency? what was the thing you loved doing that you learned programming to accomplish? i know at least one person in these forums would say that catalyst was studying japanese.
I formally started programming back in high school (2001) when I took my first class and learned Visual Basic. Although, thinking back on it, I started doing basic scripting back in middle school because I used mIRC a lot and the client allowed for extensive scripting.

The thing that has always fascinated me with programming is the ability to tell the computer what to do. It does exactly what you tell it to and many problems can be solved by using computers. There's nothing quite like writing a few 1,000 lines of code, compiling, and then having it do (almost) exactly what you wanted.

As to why I started programming. Nothing drove me to programming, there was no catalyst that made me pick up programming. I love programming because of the nature in problem solving with it and the need to have to logically break down and re-envision problems so that computers can solve them. I would be wary of pursuing programming for something so simple as improving your Japanese learning. As has been mentioned, learning to program can be pretty time consuming. There have even been studies that suggest some people may be unable to learn to program, but I'm so skeptical about those studies that I think they are probably BS.

I'll recommend Python as well, since it does have its application with Anki plugins. Python also has a wide range of built in libraries which allows you to do a great number of things. There are also tons of third party libraries as well.

partner55083777 Wrote:Ruby would be another good language to learn as a beginning language, but there's really no reason why you couldn't get a book about almost any programming language in Japanese.
While I know the typical encouragement here is to try and expand your Japanese learning into new areas you might be pursuing. I really do have to disagree with doing that here. If you have no background in programming or in logical exercises, then jumping into something like this using a language you may not have a full handle on; would be exercise in patience. Learning to program is not an easy task for many and if you are really interested in pursuing it; I can't understand why you would make the endeavor so difficult using a language you aren't fluent in.

Its worth noting that most programming languages have been created by English speakers and that the original documentation is usually in English. So anything you are learning in Japanese is simply a translation of original English docs.

programming background - Marumaru - 2013-02-15

vix86 has a point, but since most attempts at anything usually fail anyway, I would recommend you try whatever it is that you feel like doing with whatever methods you can. Strike while the iron is hot.

EDIT: The proverb works better than the strange massacre with a knife analogy I was writing.

programming background - lardycake - 2013-02-15

Marumaru Wrote:since most attempts at anything usually fail ....
This is very true. A viable strategy may be to come up with a plan that includes what is to be done in the event of failure.

As an example since RTK is the purpose of this forum, a viable strategy could be to attempt RTK, say 35 characters per day, and upon completing or reaching failure completely trash RTK (not even continue reviews) and move onto Tae Kim. Upon completing or failing Tae Kim ditch everything related to it and move onto Japanese the Manga Way or similar.

The only downside I see to this is that since you have an escape plan you may get bored sooner by wanting to move onto the next stage.

To make this relevant to the thread title this could be illustrated as the following pseudocode:
Code:
do while(!bored){
    RTK
}
do while(!bored){
    Tae Kim
}
do while(!bored){
    Japanese the Manga Way
}


programming background - vix86 - 2013-02-15

Only problem with that code being that as soon as you become bored you basically abandon everything.

programming background - chamcham - 2013-02-15

vix86 Wrote:Its worth noting that most programming languages have been created by English speakers and that the original documentation is usually in English. So anything you are learning in Japanese is simply a translation of original English docs.
Ruby was created by a Japanese guy :-)

programming background - JimmySeal - 2013-02-15

vix86 Wrote:Only problem with that code being that as soon as you become bored you basically abandon everything.
I haven't seen the syntax that lardycake was emulating (having both the do and the while before the block), but if you structure it like this, you at least get a little bit of everything done, and maybe a lot:

Code:
do{
    RTK
} while(!bored);
do {
    Tae Kim
} while(!bored);
do {
    Japanese the Manga Way
} while(!bored);
But that has the downside that you're done with one batch of each, that's it. This would probably be a better strategy:
Code:
while(true) {
do{
    RTK
} while(!bored);

something fun

do {
    Tae Kim
} while(!bored);

something fun

do {
    Japanese the Manga Way
} while(!bored);

something fun
}


programming background - Zarxrax - 2013-02-15

Programming is pretty freaking hard, and its just like learning a foreign language in the sense of the amount of dedication it takes to become good at it. And just like with a foreign language, you have to enjoy doing things with it, or you probably aren't going to stick with it.

For me, programming started out back when I was in highschool in the late 1990s. I got a brand new TI-83 calculator, and I wanted to put some games on it. I didn't want to buy a link cable to connect it to my computer, because it costed $70 or something crazy like that. So in order to get games on my calculator, I downloaded the code to them and typed it all in by hand, line by line.
And as I did that, little by little, I learned what the code was doing. I started being able to write my own simple applications and games, and then more complex ones.

I tried to take computer science in college, but I learned that it wasn't really for me. But I did end up learning C# and getting involved with using visual studio, and I have written a number of programs over the past few years to do useful things for myself.

programming background - vix86 - 2013-02-15

JimmySeal Wrote:I haven't seen the syntax that lardycake was emulating (having both the do and the while before the block), but if you structure it like this, you at least get a little bit of everything done, and maybe a lot:
The main thing I was hinting at is that if you never reset 'bored' after a loop, then you basically skip everything, or at most see everything only once depending on looping structure. (I get that it was pseudo-code)

Zarxrax Wrote:I tried to take computer science in college, but I learned that it wasn't really for me. But I did end up learning C# and getting involved with using visual studio, and I have written a number of programs over the past few years to do useful things for myself.
Many people that like programming often find Comp Sci isn't their cup of tea because CS is more fundamentals based and looks at the roots of computing. These days though, many colleges offer their CS majors split. If you want the theory side, you go that route, but if you want programming you go the software engineering side.

programming background - chamcham - 2013-02-15

A do-while loop should not be used.
It should be:

Code:
while(!bored)
{
    RTK();
    Tae_Kim();
    Japanese_The Manga_Way();
}
A do-while is guaranteed to execute at least once.
If you're bored, you'd force yourself to do all three anyway... :-(

With the while loop above, you won't do anything if you're bored.... :-p

programming background - chamcham - 2013-02-15

JimmySeal Wrote:But that has the downside that you're done with one batch of each, that's it. This would probably be a better strategy:
Code:
while(true) {
do{
    RTK
} while(!bored);

something fun

do {
    Tae Kim
} while(!bored);

something fun

do {
    Japanese the Manga Way
} while(!bored);

something fun
}
The "while (true)" makes this an infinite loop. I'm not sure
if that's your intention. If not, then you need a "break;"
at the very end (right after the last "something fun").

Also, like I mentioned before, they should be while loops instead of do-while loops.
With do-while, you'd be doing RTK and the other stuff even when you're bored. Since do-while loops must execute at least once.

programming background - Irixmark - 2013-02-15

No real programming "skills," but found that a few shell scripts at first, then some AWK and finally PERL made me tremendously more efficient at my job doing research with economic data. Was introduced to AWK by a friend in astrophysics.

I really wish though that I had the skills to port cb4960's Windows-only programs to Mac. Am pretty much tied to Mac because I have to use MS Office at work but still want to use shell scripts for my own research and have already invested in costly software for Mac. E.g. how difficult would it be to get the EPWING lookup and realtime import in Rikaichan to work on Mac... I have no idea.

programming background - Inny Jan - 2013-02-15

Started at late 80's Smile and made the programming my job - still keeps me going. Every problem has some unique aspect to it, so it's hard to get bored with the programming. (As for boredom though, dealing with patents trumped writing documentation in recent years).

Python is not a bad choice as the first language to learn. If you want some power user text processing ability, I would suggest getting familiar with vim/gVim (as long as we are talking plain text files, that is).

I felt like saving space in your example guys, so here is my version:

Code:
#define ACTIVITY(activity) \
    while (!am_i_bored()) { activity(); }

ACTIVITY(DoRTK);
ACTIVITY(DoTaeKim);
ACTIVITY(DoJtMW);


programming background - Oniichan - 2013-02-15

partner55083777 Wrote:...4. Anki itself is written in Python. If you learn Python, you are one step closer to writting plugins for Anki. (I wouldn't say this is a simple task for a beginner, but it's not totally out of the question if you're persistent.)
Out of curiosity, which Python is it written in (2 or 3)?

programming background - tashippy - 2013-02-15

this is interesting and inspiring. i'll check out python for sure. and yeah, i will measure my goals interests and time commitment/desires before diving into programming headfirst just to learn japanese better.
i've set up bootcamp/windows7 and still haven't gotten around to setting up subs2srs, and when i have these basic issues with Anki, it makes me feel like i should know more about the basics of how to use computers.
even at my job, since using anki and being on this forum, i'm seeing tasks that could be made more efficient with a little basic computing. thanks for the replies.

programming background - tashippy - 2013-02-15

Irixmark Wrote:No real programming "skills," but found that a few shell scripts at first, then some AWK and finally PERL made me tremendously more efficient at my job doing research with economic data. Was introduced to AWK by a friend in astrophysics.

I really wish though that I had the skills to port cb4960's Windows-only programs to Mac. Am pretty much tied to Mac because I have to use MS Office at work but still want to use shell scripts for my own research and have already invested in costly software for Mac. E.g. how difficult would it be to get the EPWING lookup and realtime import in Rikaichan to work on Mac... I have no idea.
i'm in the process (see above post) of getting these things set up on a Windows partition on my mac via Bootcamp. i'm having a little difficulty and thinking about switching to Parallels, but Bootcamp is FREE! maybe you can use Bootcamp or Parallels (windows virtual machine).

programming background - chamcham - 2013-02-15

tashippy Wrote:this is interesting and inspiring. i'll check out python for sure. and yeah, i will measure my goals interests and time commitment/desires before diving into programming headfirst just to learn japanese better.
i've set up bootcamp/windows7 and still haven't gotten around to setting up subs2srs, and when i have these basic issues with Anki, it makes me feel like i should know more about the basics of how to use computers.
even at my job, since using anki and being on this forum, i'm seeing tasks that could be made more efficient with a little basic computing. thanks for the replies.
You should also look into SED. SED & AWK are usually associated with each other.
AWK is a full-fledged programming language, whereas SED isn't. They each have their
strengths and weaknesses. So often people learn both.

Here's a book you can buy:
http://www.amazon.com/sed-awk-2nd-Dale-Dougherty/dp/B00007FYIJ/ref=la_B000APSS2C_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360984472&sr=1-1

programming background - partner55083777 - 2013-02-15

vix86 Wrote:
partner55083777 Wrote:Ruby would be another good language to learn as a beginning language, but there's really no reason why you couldn't get a book about almost any programming language in Japanese.
While I know the typical encouragement here is to try and expand your Japanese learning into new areas you might be pursuing. I really do have to disagree with doing that here. If you have no background in programming or in logical exercises, then jumping into something like this using a language you may not have a full handle on; would be exercise in patience. Learning to program is not an easy task for many and if you are really interested in pursuing it; I can't understand why you would make the endeavor so difficult using a language you aren't fluent in.
I totally agree with you. I was just trying to explain Marumaru's link, since he didn't do it. I was guessing that he was going for a "two birds one stone" approach. Not that I would necessarily recommend it.


@Oniichan, Anki is written in Python 2.

(One way to find out for any random program is to look at the source files themselves. If you can find the source file that you need to give to the interpreter to run (in my case /usr/bin/anki), you can look at the first line (called the "hash-bang") to figure out whether it uses Python 2 or 3. It might look something like this for Python 2:

#!/usr/bin/python

or

#!/usr/bin/env python

or

#!/usr/bin/env python2

And like this for Python3:

#!/usr/bin/python3

or

#!/usr/bin/env python3

Now, there are two problems with this. 1) This is a very linux-y solution. YYMV on Windows/Mac. 2) There is actually a lot of debate about what the hash-bang line should look like. It might change from OS to OS. It might even change from linux distro to linux distro. The debate is not particularly interesting unless you're a Python programmer or a distro maintainer.)