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+--- Thread: On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... (/thread-9868.html)
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - nihon_lover - 2012-09-01
I would to as all of you what do you do in order to keep on remembering the vocabulary you have learned, especially using the Core (2K, 6K or 10K)?
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - Zgarbas - 2012-09-01
We review.
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - nihon_lover - 2012-09-01
And how about really old words on you anki deck, the ones that you haven't reviewed for a really long time?
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - howtwosavealif3 - 2012-09-01
I never did the decks ( I watched and learned from Japanese talk variety shows) but from the looks of it all the words are pretty common and come up in everyday conversation. As long as you do stuff in Japanese ( watch something, read something everyday which isn't that hard once you find enjoyable content) .
So in short to find something to do in Japanese that is fun and enjoyable
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - Zgarbas - 2012-09-01
Well, they pop up eventually. If you don't remember them then you press 1 and you'll re-learn them. Most of them you remember if you studied them right though. I think I fail less than 1% of my mature cards, and most of the times it's because of sheer lapsus and/or new content (since when I was starting out I used mostl hiragana, but then I switched them to Kanji, so though I have no issue with うどん, I may have one with 饂飩）. That usually gets fixed after a couple of reviews and they end up back into the mature pile
Also yeah, by the time they're mature enough to not pop-up for a very long time, you're that much ahead of your studies and presumably encounter them in other places too, though that's not a must. Words that seem hard to remember in core 1k are a breeze when you're past core6k and you don't even think twice when seeing them.
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - ryuudou - 2012-09-01
nihon_lover Wrote:And how about really old words on you anki deck, the ones that you haven't reviewed for a really long time?Do you understand the concept of spaced repetition?
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - nihon_lover - 2012-09-01
Ok, I want to be clear on this. I don't want to offend anyone and I appreciate your answers, but answers like 'Do you understand the concept of spaced repetition?' doesn't help. I f someone is interested to contribute productively in this conversation, is welcomed. otherwise please don't bother.
I would also like to thank all of those above that gave me more detailed answers. I am not new to SRS, but since I have started Core 2K I feel that I am missing something on how to retain words. Sometimes I come across the same word and I end up spending a lot of time to remember it, and I feel that I am not making much progress. That is why I got worried about the fact that I might forget important stuff in the future....
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - gaiaslastlaugh - 2012-09-01
Try using them in your daily life, too. Point out everyday objects to yourself in your house using their Japanese names (冷蔵庫,押し入れ, 食器洗い機). Try and talk to yourself creating short object-verb sentences that describe what you're doing at any given moment. (This is also a great way to make your vocab active, and to increase your knowledge of collocations.)
Also, don't worry about the words you fail, even if they're old cards that you "should" know. Just let SRS work its magic. I've failed words tens of times, and then one day, they just stick. I'm often amazed at some of the wacky things I manage to retain, given enough time.
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - onafarm - 2012-09-01
Consider why you're learning vocabulary in the first place. Not to do well with your anki decks, but to be able to learn the Japanese language.
Read a lot. In Japanese.
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - howtwosavealif3 - 2012-09-01
Stuff in that deck is so common just do something in Japanese ( read watch listen whatvrr it is) and you'll retain it all and learn more. Do not stres over your retention of these words in those decks bc theyre common, you don't even have to do the deck to learn it like for me I just read and watched a lot and looked up stuff and just got used to Japanese.
Like the person above me said Reevaluate why you're learning the words. If its to read, then read. if it's to converse then converse. Etc etc. Do something in Japanese and if u still didn't find anything then have fun exploring till You find something that hooks you
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - Zgarbas - 2012-09-01
Please don't be flippant. He's barely started core2k, thus is probably a beginner. It's a common question, and years of rote memorization in school leave their mark when it comes to a system that involves not repeatedly practicing something to the point of exhaustion.
@nihon_lover: I'm sure ryuudou didn't mean any harm with the question. It's just that your question is basically a slight (but understandable) concern which is answered by knowing how SRS works
. Since you're not new to SRS, is this a problem that you only encounter with Japanese? Or is it the sheer vocab-type decks that you find difficult?
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - Ampharos64 - 2012-09-01
nihon_lover Wrote:And how about really old words on you anki deck, the ones that you haven't reviewed for a really long time?I worried about this at first too, so I do understand what you mean. : ) At the rare times I did have a problem with it and failed a lot of mature cards, I now realise, it was because I hadn't been studying consistently (which is a lot easier now I've finished my degree and no longer have to balance the two). My real problem was not trusting the SRS (occasionally I'd even fail cards on purpose to bring the interval down, because I thought it would be too long before I saw it again otherwise) - if you use it the way it's intended, it does work, and you will remember most of the words, most of the time. Though I know some people do it differently, I would say do make sure to make some conscious effort to learn it before you add it, so you're using the SRS to help you remember, not to teach you the word.
For nouns like 山羊, 萩, 飛行機, 納豆, I've recently started adding cards with the kanji compound + a picture (inspired by the Tower of Babel method), tagged by category like animals, plants, transport, food. I did initially find I would remember the reading but not necessarily recognise the compound when I saw it (since the association with the picture was stronger), but now it seems to have clicked and be working out Ok. I don't normally like to add just vocab, prefer sentences, but quite like this method, it builds a good association between the Japanese word and the object etc., and generally makes my deck look more interesting.
As a beginner, since I can't read basically anything in Japanese, I've found it's more helpful to listen (including watching TV/anime if you like it). I've been surprised how often the words I've been learning come up, and hearing them gives you extra exposure to the vocab and grammar patterns outside the SRS. Actually, with some words, I hear them so often I'm wondering how I went so long without knowing them.
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - nadiatims - 2012-09-02
don't focus on retaining what you've already learned, or your material to review will just pile up and your progress (and motivation) will stall. And you may end up as a slave to your srs. Focus on using japanese and learning the vocabulary along the way. That way You get the vocabulary retention for free while training other skills like listening, reading, speaking and grammar intuition. Don't expect it to come instantly though.
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - magamo - 2012-09-02
There are two methods that definitely work: use words you encountered and learn more words. The former is probably trivial to anyone. The latter may sound counterintuitive to you if you haven't learned one thing deeply. But knowing more always helps you retain that knowledge regardless of what you're learning. Lots of foreign language learners can attest that it becomes easier to learn a new word as your vocabulary increases. This is probably because each word gets more links to other words in your brain's network. You find it easier to maintain your vocabulary as you get familiar with more words.
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - nihon_lover - 2012-09-02
Thank you all for you responds. @Zgarbas, yes vocabulary is the thing that's kinda holds me back these days. After finishing the RTK1 half a month ago I wanted to start learning real Japanese again. But it feels that I'm going to slow and this problem seems to be resolved by @magamo's suggestion to learn more vocabulary, cause it seems when I insert let's say new 20 cards the words are being repeated so many times that it is difficult not to learn. There are times though that I add only 3. Recently (for a couple of months now), I have been watching anime raw, but I would like to look for new ways to practice. So any suggestion will be kindly accepted...
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - Zgarbas - 2012-09-02
Try looking at Chi's Sweet Home raw. The vocab there never surpasses core2k and it's very zen. The episodes are only 5 minutes long, so it won't be too hard on your attention span either
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - nihon_lover - 2012-09-02
I will definetely do that thnx @Zgarbas...
Emmm, where can I find the 'Chi's Sweet Home' manga?
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - partner55083777 - 2012-09-02
I don't want to be a dick, but I have to agree with ryuudon. Are you sure you're using Anki correctly? Are you grading cards correctly? Are you failing cards that should be failed? Is your recall percentage for mature cards between 85% and 95%?
If you are doing everything correctly, then you shouldn't have the question you have.
You might want to read through Anki's documentation one more time. It's actually kind of interesting, especially if you've already been using Anki for a long time.
Also, the Anki 2 release candidate is out, so you may want to check that out as well. The new learning mode is pretty nice, but I imagine the algorithm for maturing cards doesn't change too much.
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - nihon_lover - 2012-09-02
Hmm, it worked for me for RTK1, even though I still can't remember the really mature kanji (that of 2 months old), I can recall their stories. What I do with Core 2K, is to focus in the world and the overall meaning. If I miss one of them I fail the card. If there are cards that I have often used I press 'good' not 'hard'. I think I got the idea on how SRS works. I have been usin it for 3 months now with the RTK1.
So on your question if I am using it correctly, I would like to pose another question to all readers and responders of this thread: Even if you use the SRS, do you still have memory retention problems?
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - gaiaslastlaugh - 2012-09-02
nihon_lover Wrote:So on your question if I am using it correctly, I would like to pose another question to all readers and respinders of this thread: Even if you use the SRS, do you still have memory retention problems?Depends what you mean. If you mean, do I occasionally find myself failing cards I "should" know, and find that it sometimes takes 45 minutes to an hour to slog through 200 reviews? Yep. When that happens, I ratchet down the number of new cards I'm adding daily, and wait for the # of cards pending review to start trending downward again. (I was adding 25/day for a while, so I kind of brought this heartache upon myself...)
The language we're learning has two syllabaries totaling almost 100 base characters. It has an ideographic writing system consisting of a minimum of 1,945 daily use characters. (In practice, the number you run across in the wild is larger.) Each character is really a placeholder for anywhere between one and a dozen possible readings and meanings. You need to learn at least 2,000 words before you can be barely conversant; native speakers possess a passive vocabulary of around 20,000 words. And did I mention grammar?
Learning this language requires memorizing an asston* of facts. You can't help but forget a few - okay, a LOT - along the way. Go easy on yourself.
(* Those would be metric asstons, btw.)
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - nihon_lover - 2012-09-03
Thnx @gaiaslastlaugh. Yes that it was what I meant. Reviewing these days the Kanji I have learned in the past 3 months made me realize that it is ok if I don't remember e-ve-ry-thing. So, I just try to be creative on the way on how to study Nihongo, and all of the people here in this forum has helped me immensly and I than you all...
P.S.: 'Binbougami ga!' rules....
On how to retain the already learned vocabulary.... - gaiaslastlaugh - 2012-09-03
nihon_lover Wrote:P.S.: 'Binbougami ga!' rules....It does indeed. (*^。^*)