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This is not America - Printable Version

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This is not America - gdaxeman - 2012-09-23

pipaton Wrote:http://tallersurzaragoza.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/mafalda-boca-abajo.jpg funny stuff.
Inverting the world map is actually an interesting idea; it's tangentially similar to how Japanese world maps put them close to the center, as many here already know:

[Image: 29wl3kw.jpg]
source

In Brazil, on the other hand, we use world maps that put Western Europe in the center (not North America as many maps in the USA do). Maybe that comes from the times when Europe was "the center of the world", figuratively speaking.

This is not America - visualsense - 2012-09-23

Thanks for the images!

Since I'm from Brasil (part of America), I'll be having a lot fun posting "America, f**k yeah!" comments in the future.

This is not America - visualsense - 2012-09-23

undead_saif Wrote:What is more annoying is calling east-Asian people 'Asians', at least USA has America in its name, there's no country in Asia that has Asia in it's name O_O
I would never get worked over ignorant people sayings.
Funny because that comes from the americans(oops) that occupied Japan. Just like they call many countries names/nationalities by the american(oops) spelling/pronunciation.

This is not America - visualsense - 2012-09-23

gdaxeman Wrote:Maybe that comes from the times when Europe was "the center of the world", figuratively speaking.
Brasil is ex-european colony, dude.

This is not America - Tzadeck - 2012-09-23

visualsense Wrote:
undead_saif Wrote:What is more annoying is calling east-Asian people 'Asians', at least USA has America in its name, there's no country in Asia that has Asia in it's name O_O
I would never get worked over ignorant people sayings.
Funny because that comes from the americans(oops) that occupied Japan. Just like they call many countries names/nationalities by the american(oops) spelling/pronunciation.
Huh? I'm not sure what you mean.

This is not America - onafarm - 2012-09-23

Oxford English Dictionary:
Quote:American
adjective - relating to or characteristic of the United States. Relating to the continents of America.

noun - a native or inhabitant of the United States. A native or inhabitant of any of the countries of North, South, or Central America.


This is not America - kitakitsune - 2012-09-23

Reviewed Wrote:
kitakitsune Wrote:No one in Latin America considers themselves to be "Americans".
This is very much not true. The closest thing you'll find to that (at least in Spanish) is that "Americano/a" is (seldom) used as an adjective for things related to the U.S., and only when allowed by context.

In fact, you can find Latin Americans who'd say more or less what's in the OP (with varying levels of attachment to the topic).
Can you point out an example where a Latin American person used the word Americano/a to refer to anything other than the US?

This is not America - oyajijeff - 2012-09-23

You must be from Canada.

This is not America - gdaxeman - 2012-09-23

kitakitsune Wrote:Can you point out an example where a Latin American person used the word Americano/a to refer to anything other than the US?
In Brazil, the only time I can think of is really only when they are "correcting" people who are using the term to refer to things/people from the USA—they always come and say that "American refers to anything/anyone from the American continent, not just the U.S.!", then give some pre-made reason for the correction, often concerning the "disrespect" Americans have for the other countries in the Americas for stealing the demonym all for themselves, or that those who are from America but not from the USA should "give themselves more self-respect and not bend to USA's wishes". Then others argue that nobody actually uses the continent to refer to themselves when they can simply use the country, and the reply often mentions 'Europeans.' 100% ludicrous. I often think they bring this up just to discuss something, not because they actually would like to use the term for something else.

This is not America - gdaxeman - 2012-09-23

visualsense Wrote:Brasil is ex-european colony, dude.
Yeah, but that ended 190 years ago. Everyone who lived at that time is dead now, so we shouldn't listen to them anymore. Time to change all the maps!

This is not America - Thora - 2012-09-23

onafarm Wrote:American
adjective - relating to or characteristic of the United States. Relating to the continents of America.
noun - a native or inhabitant of the United States. A native or inhabitant of any of the countries of North, South, or Central America.
I see it as more an issue of ambiguity. "American" more commonly refers to the US, so using it to refer to the Americas combined or a person from one of the continents is unusual and potentially unclear.

In historical descriptions (for eg encounters between Vikings and Canada's indigenous people 700 years ago), it'd be understood that the intended meaning of "native americans" or "indigenous americans" is the folks inhabiting the pristine new world. But using "native americans", "america" or "american" today is more likely to be interpreted as US only. Indigeneous people in Canada aren't called native americans, for eg.

"The Americas" and "people in the Americas", etc works for the entire region. Students here are taught that N&S America are 2 separate continents, so we wouldn't consider "America" a single continent which the OP claims is correct. It seems like different countries teach it differently. (According to Wikipedia, the separate-continent model is usually taught in China, India and most English-speaking countries. The combined-continent model is taught in Latin America and in some parts of Europe.) That might partly explain the different viewpoints and language use.

I find it interesting that this is an issue in some South/Latin American countries. Do some people refer to themselves as "American" or is it more about criticizing America's use of the term? I know Neruda had used "America" for South/Latin America and "North" for the US, but I assumed that was just a stylistic choice given the political aims of the work.

Now I'm curious what terms are used in other languages. Anyone?

North & South America; the Americas 南北アメリカ
the Americas; (Org of the) American States 米州
the Americas; the American continents* アメリカ大陸 《北米･中米･南米を含む》

the USA; America アメリカ(合衆国)
米国

*My J Dict also includes the translation "the American continent" with an explanatory note that many people consider N&S Americas to be one continent.

This is not America - Reviewed - 2012-09-23

kitakitsune Wrote:
Reviewed Wrote:
kitakitsune Wrote:No one in Latin America considers themselves to be "Americans".
This is very much not true. The closest thing you'll find to that (at least in Spanish) is that "Americano/a" is (seldom) used as an adjective for things related to the U.S., and only when allowed by context.

In fact, you can find Latin Americans who'd say more or less what's in the OP (with varying levels of attachment to the topic).
Can you point out an example where a Latin American person used the word Americano/a to refer to anything other than the US?
Does it count if I do it right now?

Anyhow, the Spanish Wikipedia's article on America. Well, I can't prove that the people who edited the "americano/a" lines in are Latin American, but I thought this thread wouldn't be complete without bringing up the America = one or two continents in.

If that doesn't count... well, I can't link to real-life experience, so have Wikipedia links instead:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_(word)#Spain_and_Spanish_America http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uso_de_la_palabra_americano#.22Americano.22_en_otros_idiomas

This is not America - kitakitsune - 2012-09-24

Americano
adj. y s. De América o relativo a este continente: países americanos.

Suele aplicarse restrictivamente a los naturales de Estados Unidos y a todo lo relativo a este país: costumbres americanas.

f. chaqueta.

This is not America - gdaxeman - 2012-09-24

Thora Wrote:I see it as more an issue of ambiguity. "American" more commonly refers to the US, so using it to refer to the Americas combined or a person from one of the continents is unusual and potentially unclear.
That reminds me of another reason the now so-called American people (from the continent) who are against Americans (from the USA) using the term American only for themselves: they say that, because of that, the term became corrupted and now they can no longer use it as they would like, but they would if that was fixed. I'm not so sure about that; I believe I wouldn't use it, but they say that's only because the term was corrupted.

Quote:I find it interesting that this is an issue in some South/Latin American countries. Do some people refer to themselves as "American" or is it more about criticizing America's use of the term?
There's much concerning the way the USA uses the term to refer to their country as America, with the justification being that it sounds as if they don't care about anywhere else in the continent. Calling the country America is worse than the fact that they call themselves Americans. I think, at least in Portuguese, that's because it sounds really weird if you think about it (actually, calling the country "America" sounds strange for me too, but the demonym "American" doesn't. We're used to calling the country "Estados Unidos" all the time, without America, and that's where the suggested term "estadunidense" comes from.)

Quote:"The Americas" and "people in the Americas", etc works for the entire region. Students here are taught that N&S America are 2 separate continents, so we wouldn't consider "America" a single continent which the OP claims is correct. It seems like different countries teach it differently.
Yes, in Brazil we are taught that America is a single continent; many of us know that in the USA they teach that they are two, North and South, and that's actually something that the "anti-incorrect-use-of-the-American-term" criticize too.

Quote:But using "native americans", "america" or "american" today is more likely to be interpreted as US only. Indigeneous people in Canada aren't called native americans, for eg.
In Portuguese, "native american" (nativo americano) is almost exclusively used to refer to the indians / indigenous only, this time from the entire American continent. There's no differentiation between the indigenous native americans from North or South America. This also somewhat influences our thinking regarding the use of the term.

Thora Wrote:Now I'm curious what terms are used in other languages. Anyone?

North & South America; the Americas 南北アメリカ
the Americas; (Org of the) American States 米州
the Americas; the American continents* アメリカ大陸 《北米･中米･南米を含む》

the USA; America アメリカ(合衆国)
米国
In Chinese:

国 guó = country
洲 zhōu = continent

美国 Měiguó - The United States of America
美洲 Měizhōu - America (the continent)

美国人 Měiguórén - American (from the USA, more common)
美洲人 Měizhōurén - American (from the American continent)

北美洲人 (North American)
南美洲人 (South American)

美洲人, that is, using the continent name as a demonym, is not as common, but it's there.

This is not America - gdaxeman - 2012-09-24

Reviewed Wrote:Anyhow, the Spanish Wikipedia's article on America. Well, I can't prove that the people who edited the "americano/a" lines in are Latin American, but I thought this thread wouldn't be complete without bringing up the America = one or two continents in.

If that doesn't count... well, I can't link to real-life experience, so have Wikipedia links instead:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_(word)#Spain_and_Spanish_America http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uso_de_la_palabra_americano#.22Americano.22_en_otros_idiomas
Alright, so they say there's America, it's a single continent (and not a country), and the demonym is American/americano. From what others say and what I see in those Wikipedia links, it seems that the opinion concerning the subject are much stronger and widespread in other Latin American countries than in Brazil (my personal experience is very well-aligned with what they say about the Brazilian view in the English article.) But Americans—the ones from the USA—don't care at all about any of that, viewing it as just a Spanish thing that doesn't carry over to English; sometimes, people from Latin American countries who can speak English and are very vocal about it try to ram their view down the American's throats, but they don't conform and that's what plagues them.

Anyway, those links also brought to my memory many football/soccer teams that are called America and Americano, whose names don't refer to the USA I'm pretty sure.

This is not America - Reviewed - 2012-09-24

kitakitsune Wrote:Americano
adj. y s. De América o relativo a este continente: países americanos.

Suele aplicarse restrictivamente a los naturales de Estados Unidos y a todo lo relativo a este país: costumbres americanas.

f. chaqueta.
Umm, modifier aside, that dictionary is saying pretty much what I'm saying.

gdaxeman Wrote:Alright, so they say there's America, it's a single continent (and not a country), and the demonym is American/americano. From what others say and what I see in those Wikipedia links, it seems that the opinion concerning the subject are much stronger and widespread in other Latin American countries than in Brazil (my personal experience is very well-aligned with what they say about the Brazilian view in the English article.) But Americans—the ones from the USA—don't care at all about any of that, viewing it as just a Spanish thing that doesn't carry over to English; sometimes, people from Latin American countries who can speak English and are very vocal about it try to ram their view down the American's throats, but they don't conform and that's what plagues them.
Yeah, that's pretty much it.