Subtle differences that I can't grasp

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Subtle differences that I can't grasp - cherie91 - 2012-08-22

Hey guys I am having trouble understanding the differences between

何をする　and 何がする

The particles are confusing me, I understand both as "What are (you) doing"

Can someone be kind enough to shed some light on this problem???

Thanks in advance!!!

Subtle differences that I can't grasp - nadiatims - 2012-08-22

could you give the context you found them in?

in general 何をする means "do what" > what will/does (someone) do?

whereas 何がする　means "what does" which could be translated all sorts of ways depending on context. する can be a general verb for the presence of smells, sounds, feelings etc.

何がする does not mean 何をする。

Subtle differences that I can't grasp - JimmySeal - 2012-08-22

The Japanese person next to me just looked at 何がする and said こんな言葉ある？？
My reaction was pretty much the same.

何をする would not typically mean "What are (you) doing." Typically, that would be 何（を）して（い）る（の）？

Subtle differences that I can't grasp - cherie91 - 2012-08-22

Hmm...I can't exactly give examples because it just pop into my mind...

I always thought が should go with 'unknown' things....and since it is 'interrogative'?

Ok i have no idea whether i am making any sense here....

Subtle differences that I can't grasp - Rayath - 2012-08-22

Well, google search gives examples of 何がする, but I don't know what would that mean.

Subtle differences that I can't grasp - JimmySeal - 2012-08-22

cherie91 Wrote:Hmm...I can't exactly give examples because it just pop into my mind...

So you made it up and you want us to explain it?

が goes with unknown things that are the subject of the verb. In the sentence "What are you doing?", "you" is the subject and "what" is the object, hence why を would make sense here in most cases.

Subtle differences that I can't grasp - yudantaiteki - 2012-08-22

Rayath Wrote:Well, google search gives examples of 何がする, but I don't know what would that mean.

I was looking at those yesterday when I first read this thread -- a lot of them are false positives, and others are very suspect (either typos or a non-native speaker).

が is not interrogative.

Subtle differences that I can't grasp - Tzadeck - 2012-08-22

cherie91 Wrote:Hey guys I am having trouble understanding the differences between

何をする　and 何がする

The particles are confusing me, I understand both as "What are (you) doing"

Can someone be kind enough to shed some light on this problem???

Thanks in advance!!!

Neither one of these means "What are you doing?" The first can mean "What do you do?" The second is pretty funky.

I think you should just go over the difference between を and が more carefully, and you'll understand why the second sentence is funky (i.e., by knowing that が typically marks the subject rather than the object; by knowing that を is used to mark the object of volitional verbs like する; and so on).

Subtle differences that I can't grasp - faneca - 2012-08-23

Yeah, 何ガする is pretty funky... My guess is "Something is doing it". There's a lot of context that's lacking.

Subtle differences that I can't grasp - cherie91 - 2012-08-25

Hey guys I appreciate the help!!! Guess it is time to brush up my grammar!!

Subtle differences that I can't grasp - Warp2243 - 2012-09-05

It's weird, because if you use 何 in 何がする, one would expect an object and not a person to do the action of する (が is a particle that identify the subject of the verb it is linked to). Except that an object doesn't "do", basically you're asking "what object did that?", but you didn't even specify a "that". The question "What object did" is incomplete and calls for more information.

Like nadiatims said, with smells and sounds it could work.

何がそのいい香りをしてるの？
(lit) What is doing this nice smell?

Here we added そのいい香りを, which basically change the vague verb "する" (to do) to a whole verb sentence "いい香りをする" (to do a nice smell). Which makes sense for an object.

Regarding the difference between を　and が, it's about what word is the subject (suffixed by が), i.e. doing the action, and what word is the direct object (suffixed by を), i.e. being subject to that action. The meaning is completely different.

Subtle differences that I can't grasp - Rayath - 2012-09-05

Warp2243 Wrote:Like nadiatims said, with smells and sounds it could work.

何がそのいい香りをしてるの？
(lit) What is doing this nice smell?

Here we added そのいい香りを, which basically change the vague verb "する" (to do) to a whole verb sentence "いい香りをする" (to do a nice smell). Which makes sense for an object.

I think you put を instead of が by mistake there.

Subtle differences that I can't grasp - Tori-kun - 2012-09-05

I would say it's rather そのいい香りがするのは何（ですか）。 Not sure if this is grammatically ok, though. Just a feeling..

Subtle differences that I can't grasp - Warp2243 - 2012-09-05

Tori-kun Wrote:I would say it's rather そのいい香りがするのは何（ですか）。 Not sure if this is grammatically ok, though. Just a feeling..

No, you're totally right, I just wrote BS previously.
The answer (with voluntary paraphrase) to that question would be バラはそのいい香りがする。

I wonder if 何がそのいい香りがしてるの？ would work, but I highly doubt it. This double use of が is really weird. Yours the good one.

Subtle differences that I can't grasp - JimmySeal - 2012-09-05

Warp2243 Wrote:
Tori-kun Wrote:I would say it's rather そのいい香りがするのは何（ですか）。 Not sure if this is grammatically ok, though. Just a feeling..
No, you're totally right, I just wrote BS previously.
The answer (with voluntary paraphrase) to that question would be バラはそのいい香りがする。

The information I've been given could be wrong, but it's my understanding that you can't answer 何が with <something>は. It should be <something>が, so that sentence would be incorrect.

Quote:何がそのいい香りをしてるの？

Yes, this works, but it's still not an example of the phrase 何がする. There's stuff added in the middle.

The only case where I can imagine someone actually using the phrase 何がする would be to ask someone to repeat something they said:

A: 出かけようと思うと必ず［ｉｎｄｉｓｔｉｎｃｔ］がする。
B: 何がする？
A: 雷。