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+--- Thread: Be about to do something: verb~you to suru VS verb + tokoro (/thread-9731.html)
Be about to do something: verb~you to suru VS verb + tokoro - matrixofdynamism - 2012-08-06
So I have come across two terms that give the meaning of be about to do something.
The first is Verb+you to suru. ~you to suru which makes use of a verb in the "lets do ... X" form can actually mean 2 things
1) We are about to do something.
2) We are attempting something without so far being successful.
While tokoro means refers to state of something. I just wish to know what is the difference between the two when referring to "about to do something"?
Be about to do something: verb~you to suru VS verb + tokoro - nadiatims - 2012-08-06
Not really the same thing.
think of Vよう と する as emphasizing the volition (or will or intention) to do something, hence taking the volitional form of the verb.
What the と here is really doing, is turning the volitional verb into an adverbial phrase describing the intention behind the action, in this case する, but it could be other verbs too.
examples:
支払おうと 金を出した。 (someone) took out money with intention to pay.
風邪を引くまいと 気を付けてね。take care (with intention) not to catch a cold. Vまい is negative volitional.
Think of する as being a kind of generic verb describing the subject of the sentence.
食べようとしていた。I was acting/thinking/being with intention of eating.
Whereas with ところ, the sentence makes no statement about the intention of the subject. It just describes the scene at that time.
家を出る所、電話がなった。At the time/place/scene when i was (about to) leave home, the phone rang.
I think the 'about to' is just a useful translation. I don't know how strictly it's really implied. It could just mean 'as I was leaving home,....'
Be about to do something: verb~you to suru VS verb + tokoro - Arupan - 2012-08-06
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Be about to do something: verb~you to suru VS verb + tokoro - Tori-kun - 2012-08-06
You might want to keep in mind ～ようとするところ is common 'set phrase'.
Like nadiatims wrote, I guess the first part of the sentence could be 家を出ようとしたところ、～, if I'm not mistaken. I'm not sure about the particle to follow ところ （へ・に・で・を）, though
Be about to do something: verb~you to suru VS verb + tokoro - nadiatims - 2012-08-06
Arupan Wrote:I don't think you can use まい for other people like in the 風邪を引くまいと 気を付けてね exampleI think you can use it for other people, though I agree that it probably doesn't make sense to use it with a suggestion, or at least is extremely rare. Suggesting/ordering someone to do something with a certain mental state of volition seems odd. Poor example sentence on my part. I'm not sure if it technically wrong though.
But something like 彼は風邪を引くまいと,気を付けていた。 would be fine I think.
Be about to do something: verb~you to suru VS verb + tokoro - Tori-kun - 2012-08-06
彼は風邪を引かないようにした。
彼は風邪を引かないように気をつけていた。
Are both valid, aren't they, nadiatims? The reason I chose ないよう is that I rarely hear まい being used
Be about to do something: verb~you to suru VS verb + tokoro - matrixofdynamism - 2012-08-06
I have not seen まい yet. Have not seen this before. Hmm
Thus the latter is about intention while the former is about the way the scene is. Is there a restriction in whether any of them e.g can both be used for 2nd and 3rd persons, past and present? I am sure this will benefit anyone reading this latter on as well.
Be about to do something: verb~you to suru VS verb + tokoro - Tori-kun - 2012-08-06
@matrixofdynamism: まい is an oldfashioned negative volitional form, i.e. ～ないだろう (as my textbook says). The aff-vol. form is ～よう.
Be about to do something: verb~you to suru VS verb + tokoro - vileru - 2012-08-06
Tori-kun Wrote:彼は風邪を引かないようにした。Depends on with whom you spend your time. Older people and intellectual types use まい more frequently.
彼は風邪を引かないように気をつけていた。
Are both valid, aren't they, nadiatims? The reason I chose ないよう is that I rarely hear まい being used
Be about to do something: verb~you to suru VS verb + tokoro - kazeatari - 2012-08-06
Tori-kun Wrote:You might want to keep in mind ～ようとするところ is common 'set phrase'.You can find some pretty useful information here:
Like nadiatims wrote, I guess the first part of the sentence could be 家を出ようとしたところ、～, if I'm not mistaken. I'm not sure about the particle to follow ところ （へ・に・で・を）, though
http://www.jpf.go.jp/j/japanese/survey/tsushin/grammar/201106.html
About the tricky "tokoro wo" you may want to read also this one:
http://web.ydu.edu.tw/~uchiyama/1h93fy/tokoro.html
Be about to do something: verb~you to suru VS verb + tokoro - Arupan - 2012-08-07
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Be about to do something: verb~you to suru VS verb + tokoro - Tori-kun - 2012-08-07
Quote:「ところに」の前には「～(しようと)している／していた」の形が来ることが多いです。後ろに続く文では、人やものや事態が出現する表現(来る、やってくる、(電話が)かかってくる、通りかかる、など)が来やすくなります。 [...] 「ところに」は「ところへ」に置き換えることができます。Indeed. Confirmed
Be about to do something: verb~you to suru VS verb + tokoro - matrixofdynamism - 2012-08-07
I see I learnt a new thing. I had wondered before as to how to make negative -you word.