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+--- Thread: Natural timeboxing? (/thread-9679.html)
Natural timeboxing? - frony0 - 2012-07-29
It's undeniable that timeboxing produces remarkable results when it comes to inspiring productivity, yet even knowing that, I still procrastinate the actual use of timeboxing. Kind of defeating the object... Having said that, I just noticed that I've inadvertently been using them during reviews anyway, very simply by watching TV. Since TV by default works on something like a 15m-5m cycle with shows and adverts, and I find myself frantically powering through reviews during that 5 minute reprieve to compulsively ignore corporate manipulation and neurolinguistic programming, not only because they both bore and annoy me but also to get the reviews done so I can get on with watching my programme.
I'd imagine plenty of you already do this, and for things other than Anki or RevTK it's quite instinctive, but it's an interesting angle on timeboxing if you think about it.
P.S. I wrote this during QI's adverts
Natural timeboxing? - shinsen - 2012-07-29
Doing some reviews is better than not doing reviews at all, but based on scientific research I've seen your "natural timeboxing" could be simply you avoiding getting real with Japanese.
Multitasking or fast-switching tasks has been shown to be detrimental to progress and productivity. It feels like you're getting more done but in reality you're just avoiding real focus and not letting yourself get into "the zone" which is where real progress happens. You know, like being totally absorbed in the task and forgetting about everything else. Single tasking is where it's at.
I recently listened to Malcolm Gladwell's "Outliers" book (while playing Diablo 3, guilty as charged) and he mentioned some research where they analyzed violinists. Thanks to Google I can inform you that the research article is titled "The role of deliberate practice in the acquisition of expert performance". The title pretty much summarized their findings - they discovered that average and elite violinists spend about the same amount of hours practicing. The difference was in the quality of those hours - the top performers do it in dedicated chunks. Average performers spread their practice throughout the day. More on this here.
Natural timeboxing? - blackbrich - 2012-07-29
The top performers also used their practice time better doing deliberate practice. So its possible that was the major factor too maybe moreso than the dedicated chunks. But I never read the actual research results so I'm only going on the results shown in the linked article.
Natural timeboxing? - shinsen - 2012-07-29
blackbrich Wrote:The top performers also used their practice time better doing deliberate practice. So its possible that was the major factor too maybe moreso than the dedicated chunks.I'm not sure why you'd make a difference between deliberate practice and dedicated chunks (of time). Same thing, no?
Natural timeboxing? - frony0 - 2012-07-29
shinsen Wrote:--snip--I see what you mean by that, though I also know what you mean by "the zone". It just so happens that some days I can do it and some days I can't, more often the latter as I've grown tired of RTK (but I can't start anything else Japanesey until I finish. OCD...) For example yesterday I burned through 300 cards in two hours, and on some days I've gone over 600, but others the lazy kicks in and the closest I can get to real progress is this. Though that study does show that timeboxing is detrimental to study, in the long run it seems a better alternative to constant burnouts. Of course when you can reach "the zone" it becomes irrelevant.
Natural timeboxing? - blackbrich - 2012-07-29
No.
Deliberate practice:
Quote:[A]ctivities designed, typically by a teacher, for the sole purpose of effectively improving specific aspects of an individual’s performance.Source
That article says
Quote:The difference was in how they spent this time. The elite players were spending almost three times more hours than the average players on deliberate practice — the uncomfortable, methodical work of stretching your ability.Then goes on to say
Quote:But the researchers weren’t done.So not only were the top performers practicing in chunks they were practicing very super-focused on specific aspects of their craft.
They also studied how the students scheduled their work. The average players, they discovered, spread their work throughout the day. A graph included in the paper, which shows the average time spent working versus the waking hours of the day, is essentially flat.
The elite players, by contrast, consolidated their work into two well-defined periods. When you plot the average time spent working versus the hours of the day for these players, there are two prominent peaks: one in the morning and one in the afternoon.
Natural timeboxing? - frony0 - 2012-07-29
shinsen Wrote:Arguably it's a false analogy in any case since violin practice is far more complex than simple key-value pair recall, whereas this is. Still, I see your point.blackbrich Wrote:The top performers also used their practice time better doing deliberate practice. So its possible that was the major factor too maybe moreso than the dedicated chunks.I'm not sure why you'd make a difference between deliberate practice and dedicated chunks (of time). Same thing, no?
Natural timeboxing? - shinsen - 2012-07-29
frony0 Wrote:Though that study does show that timeboxing is detrimental to study, in the long run it seems a better alternative to constant burnouts.Hmm, I would think the study actually shows that timeboxing is perfect for study. The elite violinists essentially timebox twice a day. The more clearly they define their practice time the better the results.
Natural timeboxing? - frony0 - 2012-07-29
To be honest I hadn't read it too carefully until just then, my brain's a bit fuzzy from lack of sleep. Nevertheless I wouldn't call such a long period a timebox. In the case of violin practice it's just a bound to prevent practice from spilling into overtime. The same can be done for RTK, the difference being anki provides its own logical bound so such a spill is impossible.
As you say, it proves that proper definition and organisation of time is more beneficial than procrastination hacks like timeboxes (which I'm given to define as anything that resembles dividing work into tiny manageable and dauntless nibbles, temporally or logically, and completing them with interleaved timed breaks).
Edit: Spelling, punctuation and paragraphs...
Natural timeboxing? - erlog - 2012-07-29
I think that timeboxing can be a helpful way to build milestones for something that can feel like a slog, but I think splitting reviews up into more logical chunks does a better job for the long term.
In the current version of Anki it's really difficult to do that, but the new features coming in Anki 2 make it a lot easier. Anki 2 makes it really easy to reorganize cards and move them between decks. I re-organized my card library away from monolothic flashcard decks, and toward very defined hierarchical chunks.
My RTK deck for example has three sections: RTK 1, RTK 3, and one called RTK ∞ that has non-RTK cards. My Kanji Kentei decks are split by test level. I can review all the cards in one large chunk or I can review the cards from each of the sections individually.
So right now I always just review all my RTK cards at once since it's only like 130 cards a day. For the KanKen deck, I do reviews for each of the levels separately. So the actual chunks of work break down to 20-30 minute segments. There's a very defined sense of completion for each chunk.
Organizing my flashcards this way has allowed me to do about 750 cards per day very consistently for the last 3 months. Before I was only doing about half that. My goal in re-organizing wasn't ever to increase my productivity. It was actually quite accidental, but the results have been very encouraging.
Natural timeboxing? - blackbrich - 2012-07-29
I think you can already do that stuff. I thought.
Or is it, you can set it to review levels one at a time automatically every day? You can review different sets now, but you have to tell it what you want to review before you do.
Natural timeboxing? - shinsen - 2012-07-29
frony0 Wrote:As you say, it proves that proper definition and organisation of time is more beneficial than procrastination hacks like timeboxesWell, I use the Pomodoro technique (specifically Pomodoro app for OS X) for RTK and programming. For me, the whole idea is to focus on one task. No TV, no interruptions, no multitasking. Just you and the thing you want to get done. It's not so much about breaking it up into manageable pieces as it is about concentrating. When I set the timer, I know that for the next 25 minutes I'm doing my reviews. Not watching TV, not browsing the web, etc. It's actually funny when you start doing this you catch yourself having sudden impulses to get distracted. The pomodoro timer is there to remind you that now is a special time.
Having said that, if your RTK actually consists of "simple key-value recall" as you put it instead of Heisig's suggested use of imagination and recalling of stories then I'd say you are past Heisig's actual method. You have learned the kanji and you are now using SRS for maintenance to keep those synapses from disconnecting. Probably doesn't matter how and when you do it as long as you're keeping up with your SRS schedule.
Natural timeboxing? - frony0 - 2012-07-30
erlog Wrote:I think that timeboxing can be a helpful way to build milestones for something that can feel like a slog, but I think splitting reviews up into more logical chunks does a better job for the long term.That makes sense. I do that already in Anki 1 when I'm really swamped (with a combination of suspending and tags) though I can't really switch to Anki 2 until the mobile client works and possibly has a scratchpad, but I'll remember your advice.
shinsen Wrote:Well, I use the Pomodoro techniqueI see how that would work too, but only if you decide and define when your focus times start and end beforehand, which is really just what I was saying anyway
I actually meant stories as the value, though you're probably right. I have noticed myself that I mostly skip the stories nowadays. They latter ones were very loose to begin with anyway.
Natural timeboxing? - kanon - 2012-08-19
It's useful if that time would otherwise be wasted, and it's a good way of clearing a whole bunch of cards when you don't have time to sit down and anki for 1hr straight.
Even though doing it 5 minutes at a time has lower efficiency than combining them into one big chunk of time due to task switching, if you will otherwise be wasting those 5 minutes waiting for the bus, etc, then I would say it's a no brainer. I can clear 100+ cards during commute everyday and that considerably lightens my load to the point where some days I don't even have to sit down and anki when I'm tired at night - and that will maintain and build your knowledge through times when your motivation aren't as strong and when your schedule is tighter than usual.
Natural timeboxing? - Aspiring - 2012-08-19
This is somewhat relevant..
'Focus Booster' is a great pomdoro timer. It's very efficient and sleek. It makes timeboxing look cool. I seriously mean that.