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+--- Thread: Tae Kim or KM2 referenced to A Dict of (Basic) Japanese Grammar? (/thread-9610.html)
Tae Kim or KM2 referenced to A Dict of (Basic) Japanese Grammar? - Nukemarine - 2012-06-14
Tae Kim and the Kanzen Master (2 and 1) grammar spreadsheets I used to make flashcards are amazing. However, from time to time their explanations are lacking. Now, I assume that A Dictionary of Basic (Intermediate, Advance) Japanese Grammar has much more detailed explanations. Has anyone in the last few years cross referenced the spreadsheets to more explicit descriptions in ADJG (BIA) such as book and page number listings?
I'm thinking of doing it myself just for completions sake. However, no need to recreate effort if it exists.
Tae Kim or KM2 referenced to A Dict of (Basic) Japanese Grammar? - vix86 - 2012-06-14
If no one hasn't, it wouldn't be too difficult to crowd source I would imagine if you can get a handful of people to take 100 lines or so at a time.
Tae Kim or KM2 referenced to A Dict of (Basic) Japanese Grammar? - rich_f - 2012-06-14
I cross-referenced some of the old KM2 and the ADJG books, as well as the どんなとき dictionary, where the ADJG books fell flat. (Which was often.) I basically scribbled notes in the margins. I could probably whip up a spreadsheet. Poke me via email if I don't post it soon.
Tae Kim or KM2 referenced to A Dict of (Basic) Japanese Grammar? - Tori-kun - 2012-06-14
Nukemarine, do you page number etc. with reference? It would be great to have the explanations in a special field in my Kanzen Master JLPT2 deck... but that would be a lot of work to be done by myself. Thought about it sometimes, but never got to it
Tae Kim or KM2 referenced to A Dict of (Basic) Japanese Grammar? - rich_f - 2012-06-14
Turns out I never looked up anything from 1-34 in KM2 in any of the dictionaries. So I'm starting from 35 on. Looks like I have some good notes in the margins. It will probably need some double-checking.
Tae Kim or KM2 referenced to A Dict of (Basic) Japanese Grammar? - rich_f - 2012-06-14
Okay, spreadsheet is up in Google Docs:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AjXlCsu0i4MOdGxBNUdhX3o0T1JfWS1iVlUtY3dZcEE
If you have the link, you can open/edit it.
Explanations:
First column-- item number in KZM2 (old version) (not page number here)
Second column-- reference for ADJG (A for advanced, I for intermediate, B for basic, followed by page number)
Third column-- page in どんなとき dictionary
Fourth column-- page in old 2級 version of 45日間で基礎からわかる日本語能力試験２級文法
Fifth column-- page in old 2級 version of Nihongo-So-Matome (文法) by Ask publishing. Not the same as the version with the critters on the covers. This is the previous version.
Sixth column (only one entry)-- page in 日本語文型辞典
I don't claim to have gotten many/any of these right... it's been a year since I studied for N2, so who knows. They'll probably need checking.
I know I'm citing a bunch of out-of-print books as well. That's what I had when I was studying. You might want to change the tertiary cites to some other books.
Go nuts.
Tae Kim or KM2 referenced to A Dict of (Basic) Japanese Grammar? - Nukemarine - 2012-06-14
Rich, Great job. Looking forward to populate it.
Long term idea: On Anki, somebody two or three years back posted all the examples from ADJG which came to about 9000 sentences or so. This included not just the articles, but grammar terms, introductory explanations and appendixes. Unfortunately, the sentences were not labeled (just the sentence itself in Japanese, furigana and English). I already exported this into a spreadsheet way back when and didn't do much with it.
What I'm thinking now is split the spreadsheet into the three books (Basic, Intermediate and Advanced. Divide each of those into three sheets (Main articles, introductory chapters, appendixes). Add appropriate columns to the main articles sheet to make a more detailed spreadsheet (book index, article name japanese, article name romaji, description, format, notes) on top of the extra indexes Rich just provided.
Finally, as per unofficial forum policy, lock down all the spreadsheets giving access only to those that give modest proof of ownership of the books.
Seems like a legit crowdsource project. On top of that, if Tae Kim's effort are indexed people will have a great order to learn (Tae Kim) but with more detailed descriptions and examples (ADOJG). The grammar version of using KO2k1 order using Core 2k/6k examples if you will.
Tae Kim or KM2 referenced to A Dict of (Basic) Japanese Grammar? - netsplitter - 2012-06-14
Nukemarine Wrote:On top of that, if Tae Kim's effort are indexed people will have a great order to learn (Tae Kim) but with more detailed descriptions and examples (ADOJG). The grammar version of using KO2k1 order using Core 2k/6k examples if you will..That sounds like a great idea. I was planning to go through ADBJG Real Soon Now™, so I might help out.
I think the items in the book are in alphabetical order, and that's how I intended to read it, so a more sensible order would be a great addition.
Tae Kim or KM2 referenced to A Dict of (Basic) Japanese Grammar? - s0apgun - 2012-06-14
Looking forward to this!
Tae Kim or KM2 referenced to A Dict of (Basic) Japanese Grammar? - rich_f - 2012-06-14
Glad to help, such that it is. As I said before, you'll need to double-check those cites. Also, the ADJG books don't cover all of KM2. There was a significant chunk that I couldn't find in there, and wound up using the どんなとき dictionary. So studying the ADJG books alone *won't* get you to N2. It *will* get you some solid control over J Grammar, though, and there are N1 bits in there, too.
I remember that ADBJG project. I just took a look at the worksheets. (They're still on Google Docs, but I'm not the owner. They haven't been touched in 3 years or so.) They do include chapter fields that mention which parts of grammar the sentences belong to. But they only did the first book with that. If you're going to do something with those books, it would be easier to start from there and just copy it and modify the copy as you need to. No need to repeat work already done.
I'm a little burned out with reading grammar book sentences in my deck. If I add anything to my deck, it's going to be questions about grammar I need to know for N1, and maybe pictures of unicorns or something suitably entertaining.