+- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com)
+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: Off topic (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-13.html)
+--- Thread: Studying medicine in Japan (/thread-9572.html)
Studying medicine in Japan - Tori-kun - 2012-06-15
Just curious. Possible with an Abitur? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abitur
Have no JLPT certification. Not afraid of medical kanji hell
Studying medicine in Japan - dizmox - 2012-06-15
If you can pay for it and pass the entrance exams I don't see why not...
Studying medicine in Japan - vix86 - 2012-06-15
I don't understand how the Arbitur applies to Japan. No university in Japan is going to accept an Arbitur.
You will HAVE to take the entrance exams just like all Japanese students. Apparently the medical faculties are difficult to get into in Japan, but that comes as no surprise to me. The thing that actually has me curious and I didn't google enough to see if its true, is whether or not there is a glass ceiling in hiring foreign doctors in Japan. There is a shortage of doctors in Japan so I don't know.
The importance of Japanese skill can't be pushed enough though. To iterate this point: http://www.iime.org/database/pacific/japan.htm
I recommend looking at the pages for some Med school faculties listed on that directory. Many have English pages, but none of the ones I picked I looked at listed ANY information about Admissions in English. All of the information is in Japanese.
I don't know what your end goals are in doing med school in Japan but if it isn't "to become a doctor in Japan" then I would question why Japan?
Nothing short of N1 plus lots of studying and understanding of science and math terms in Japanese (plus solving them), is going to cut it for the entrance exam.
EDIT: As to the pay point that dimoz brought up. If you are attending a Nat'l uni then the cost is minimal. ~500000-700000yen a year. I wouldn't fret over cost though until you even think you can pass the entrance exam.
EDIT 2: If this is actually a serious endeavor of yours I would consider getting a study guide/copy of past year exams for some schools. Amazon lists some. This will give you an idea of the height of the wall you need to scale.
Studying medicine in Japan - dizmox - 2012-06-15
vix86 Wrote:I don't know what your end goals are in doing med school in Japan but if it isn't "to become a doctor in Japan" then I would question why Japan?This begs mentioning the additional point that without Japanese citizenship, finding a position as a junior doctor in Japan would likely be extremely difficult or impossible. In the UK for example, non-EU citizens are barred from training positions. If you came back to (I assume) Germany you'd at least have to do the medical exams all over again and I'm guessing even then it could be a problem having studied somewhere completely alien.
Studying medicine in Japan - kitakitsune - 2012-06-15
Lets be real
Unless your Japanese language skills are better than the average native born college educated Japanese person, you have no chance of going to medical school or becoming a doctor in Japan.
Studying medicine in Japan - vix86 - 2012-06-15
dizmox Wrote:finding a position as a junior doctor in Japan would likely be extremely difficult or impossible.I must have edited it out in my sleep filled haze last night. But I wouldn't be surprised if there is a meter thick glass ceiling blocking any foreigner from becoming a doctor in Japan.
I hate to rain on someone's parade/dreams, but this is kind of feat sits well within the realm of the impossible for 99.99% of people. Ignoring simple language barriers, which kitakitsune stated correctly I think, I just have a hard time believing that somewhat-foreigner-cautious Japan would even consider hiring a foreign looking, Japan trained doctor. That's assuming you can even get a med school in Japan to let you in.
Studying medicine in Japan - slivir - 2012-06-16
Perhaps you could set your sights on nursing instead? For that there is a huge demand for trained foreigners. You have to know the language of course but you don't have to have native-like fluency.
Studying medicine in Japan - vix86 - 2012-06-16
slivir Wrote:Perhaps you could set your sights on nursing instead? For that there is a huge demand for trained foreigners. You have to know the language of course but you don't have to have native-like fluency.This is true, but I would research it THOROUGHLY before committing to it. The majority of foreign nurses trying to come into Japan are from the Philippines. I have no evidence to back this up save for how (SE Asian) foreigners in Japan tend to be treated; but you might be looking at quite sub-sub-standard pay compared to Japanese nurses and not even hold legit full time status. IE: You are on a constant 1 to 3 year renewal contract, meaning you have to worry from year to year whether or not they'll just tell you out of the blue, "Tough luck, we aren't renewing your contract, bye."
Studying medicine in Japan - kitakitsune - 2012-06-16
Even the foreign nurses have to get Japanese certifications after two (or three? )years in order to continue working and I think the current pass rate for those exams is under 1%...it's basically a racket to get ever rotating 2-3 years of near free labor.
Studying medicine in Japan - Tori-kun - 2012-06-16
Thanks for your replies. Just wanted to get a bit of info concerning what studying medicine in Japan is like.. seems like it's impossible to me, even looking at the fees paid annually. In Germany you can study for free o.o
Studying medicine in Japan - dizmox - 2012-06-16
Today I asked an experienced doctor from Japan about it. She said she's never seen or heard about a single foreign doctor there.
Studying medicine in Japan - yowamushi - 2012-06-16
Dedication in "The Modern Reader's Japanese-English Character Dictionary" by Andrew N. Nelson:
To my son Richard Andrew Nelson, M.D.
who as a busy surgeon and against great odds
passed the Japanese National Medical Examinations
given both in oral and written Japanese
thus demonstrating that an American
can master the language
RE: Studying medicine in Japan - Seikou - 2016-05-25
(2012-06-16, 4:51 pm)yowamushi Wrote: Dedication in "The Modern Reader's Japanese-English Character Dictionary" by Andrew N. Nelson:
To my son Richard Andrew Nelson, M.D.
who as a busy surgeon and against great odds
passed the Japanese National Medical Examinations
given both in oral and written Japanese
thus demonstrating that an American
can master the language
http://repository.meijigakuin.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/10723/2327/1/christ%20bulletin_47_193-226.pdf
From p195 of this document, an interview with Richard Andrew Nelson reveals that he was born in Japan and raised as an "Edokko", but went to America for his medical education and training-- so unfortunately he isn't an L2 adult learner.
Nonetheless, I believe it's completely possible for a foreigner to become a doctor through Japan's system (once you reach native fluency (through the AJATT immersion method, for instance), the medical entrance exam you could assume to be as equally difficult (or even easier! (due to the inference power of kanji compounding, you can infer meanings of long-winded specialist medical terms even if you aren't certain of the readings, while in European languages this not always possible)) than your medical program back home.
_However_, i'm not sure I could sympathize with the motivations. Japanese doctors seem severely under-payed compared to their Western counterparts (seems to be about a 2x difference, correct me if I'm wrong), granted, money is not the only motivation of course, but a factor of 2x salary difference is pretty severe for the huge mental, physical and time investment you'd have to put in..
P.S. ...oh my gosh so many brackets
RE: Studying medicine in Japan - ariariari - 2016-05-25
(2012-06-16, 4:15 pm)dizmox Wrote: Today I asked an experienced doctor from Japan about it. She said she's never seen or heard about a single foreign doctor there.
(2012-06-16, 1:01 am)kitakitsune Wrote: Even the foreign nurses have to get Japanese certifications after two (or three? )years in order to continue working and I think the current pass rate for those exams is under 1%...it's basically a racket to get ever rotating 2-3 years of near free labor.
These are the answers that I basically expected to hear, based on my experience on JET and reading about Japanese immigration policies on debito.org.
It seems like in Japan foreigners are welcome as English teachers, entertainment figures and sports figures. But breaking into the professions is a very different thing.
The irony is that as foreign language learners it's easy for us to assume that it's just about language, because that's our most pressing issue. But in fact it's not. For example, on debito.org a lot of long-term residents report that their haafu children, who are completely fluent in Japanese, encounter a lot of obstacles to launching successful careers due to their race.
RE: Studying medicine in Japan - Raschaverak - 2016-05-26
Why not try completing medical school in Germany? You said that it's cost efficient, and you are already there and speak German I presume. Then along the line you could study Japanese if you have the time and commitment. Then you could try a medical scholarship to Japan for 1 year or something, to see what's it like. Of course for this you would have to do some research, and apply for med schools with strong ties to Japan (if there are any, but I think there should be).
During the scholarship you should aim for making personal connections with the right people: I'm pretty sure that would definitely shift the chances to your favor, once you get your degree you could go back for residency to Japan, further strengthening your connections, until you find a way / person who will help you stay a bit longer. This all assuming that you have the endurance, aptitude, ect. for medicine, the Japanese language, ect. It's a far catch, but maybe not too far.
I actually can imagine a foreigner doctor working in japan full time, but only in big cities with lots of foreigner tourists: like Tokyo. You could specialize to foreigners in your practice, making 60-70% of your clients foreigners (westerners), and the rest Japanese. This could work, it sounds plausible to me at least. Because it sound like a plan.
But you didn't ask this, you asked can you apply for a Japanese medical school from here, and study medicine in Japanese there...I'm pretty sure that's impossible, unless you have a solid plan.
All this aside, medicine is not something you should start studying on a whim, or just because you want to go to Japan. You don't need a medical degree for that. So the question is, basically, which is more important to you? Medicine or Japan? The answer to this question should lay out the way to your dreams. But you HAVE to decide - which you obviously haven't done yet.
RE: Studying medicine in Japan - mezbup - 2016-05-30
(2012-06-15, 11:33 am)Tori-kun Wrote: Just curious. Possible with an Abitur? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abitur
Have no JLPT certification. Not afraid of medical kanji hell
Unless you're of Asian descent there is absolutely no point. Medical profession won't hire you in Japan. Complete waste of time and it would be a very bitter end to a long and hard journey.
RE: Studying medicine in Japan - Dudeist - 2016-05-30
I could have sworn I read a story regarding a foreign doctor examining a foreign abuse victim of a foreign priest at a school in Japan.
It seems from the above that you can get licence to practice in Japan. Surely there are enough foreigners in the bigger cities with which to generate a practice avoiding any reluctance in having someone hire you by setting up your own shop. Plenty of Germans who would rather get treated in their own language, plenty of English teachers who would rather someone of your English level.
Even if I was an JLPT N1 or N0, if I were in Japan I'd rather have an Anglo doctor.
Your typical GP has about 2000 patients if I am right. Should be doable.
I'd question the point but not my life.
RE: Studying medicine in Japan - SydNRTgo! - 2016-06-01
I went to a British-born (non-Asian looking) doctor in Tokyo (Ebisu). There are some times when you don't want to deal with a foreign medical system, even if you can understand it & even if you believe its diagnosis is correct. He had his own private practice, and was not part of a hospital (perhaps unusual in Japan, but usual to my eyes). There are also quite a few American-run religious hospitals in big cities, they employ Japanese people but I think also Westerners. So yes, there are definitely non-Japanese doctors in Japan for foreigners to consult.
I did an exchange with Tokyo Institute of Technology. They have a very good program for foreigners, although it is mainly at graduate level. They definitely teach Japanese to foreigners with a view to you understanding technical jargon, their specific technical Japanese courses are excellent IMHO. They also taught conversational/daily use Japanese for beginners through to advanced, again very well taught but obviously you need to focus/study.
TiTech had lots of international students. I'm not sure if they teach medicine (please check their website for yourself) but they did many technical / scientific subjects, if that's your interest area. http://www.titech.ac.jp/english/graduate_school/international/index.html
At TiTech, knowing English is a big advantage, as more senior students are expected to write papers in English for worldwide publication. A friend/senpai never quite mastered English, so had to transfer to another uni during his PhD, as it wasn't really acceptable to TiTech for him to continue without knowing English. However, if you are a foreigner, people will only help you in English, not other languages eg. French, Mandarin (there were many French and also Chinese students in my classes who got a bit grumpy about this).
If you go to a Japanese university, you have to be prepared to participate in the senpai/kohai realtionships, they are absolutley important. Australia (where I'm from) really doesn't have senpai/kohai stuff, at least not until you're doing your PhD and hoping to become an academic. I've heard Germany has even less senpai/kohai feeling than Australia, so it will likely be a cultural shock.
There is also the cultural issue of academic debate. I remember the awkwardness between a visiting American academic who was happy to debate, challenge concepts, play devil's advocate (which I am used to) and the Japanese academics hosting him, who had a totally different style of academic investigation (which I didn't stay long enough to fully understand).
On the other hand, there was a lot better integration between industry and universities at TiTech than there is in Australia. Many PhD students were working on topics of direct interest to big companies like Sony, Panasonic etc, and so worked part-time for those companies. They will likely be able to continue with their research interests after their PhDs by working at those companies.