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+--- Thread: Casual Abbreviations (/thread-8947.html)
Casual Abbreviations - callmedodge - 2012-07-02
I`m just looking over the casual abbreviations for "Must do" and "Must not do" and I was just wondering if anyone knows any?
All I can find are (for example):
勉強しなくてはだめ。 goes to 勉強しなくちゃ。
ここに入ってはだめ。 goes to ここに入っちゃだめ。
But apparently ちゃ sounds somewhat girly. I was wondering if anyone knew any neutral or manly abbreviations of these forms?
Casual Abbreviations - yudantaiteki - 2012-07-02
ちゃ doesn't sound girly; I don't know how that idea got started.
Casual Abbreviations - Rina - 2012-07-02
I was actually told that なくちゃ was more used by women and なきゃ by men. Though I なきゃ by both.
Casual Abbreviations - yudantaiteki - 2012-07-02
But きゃ can't be used for positive; you can only say 食べちゃだめ.
Casual Abbreviations - callmedodge - 2012-07-02
I`m not sure how it got started but it`s definitely being propagated by Tae Kim as he constantly mentions that ちゃ is a girly sound.
I can try to confirm this with some actual Japanese people unless it`s already been done?
Casual Abbreviations - HonyakuJoshua - 2012-07-02
have you got any Links to Tae Kim saying this? I found this link useful: http://www.fredshack.com/docs/jcolloquialabs.html
Casual Abbreviations - Isbilenper - 2012-07-02
HonyakuJoshua Wrote:have you got any Links to Tae Kim saying this? I found this link useful: http://www.fredshack.com/docs/jcolloquialabs.htmlThanks for the link!
As for a link to Tae Kim saying this, you can find it on the following address (which is most likely where the OP got it from as well): http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/must
For convenience, here is the exact quote from that page as stated by Tae Kim:
"On a final note, in general, 「ちゃ」 sounds a bit cutesy or girly. You've already seen an example of this with the 「ちゃん」 suffix. Similarly, 「なくちゃ」 also sounds a bit cutesy or childish."
Whether or not he is right is not something that I feel competent enough to comment on, so I will leave that up to you guys.
Casual Abbreviations - yudantaiteki - 2012-07-02
In my experience, and also asking a couple of Japanese guys, that is not true. A student had asked me that and I asked one of the other Japanese people at OSU (who used 俺 all the time) and he said it wasn't girly at all.
Casual Abbreviations - imabi - 2012-07-24
I would agree with yudantaiteki. I don't think it's girly, perhaps kiddish at times. Like anything else things like this would really depend on the tone of voice of the speaker.
Casual Abbreviations - socrat - 2012-07-24
If you are looking for casual ways to say the same thing another (very common) option would be...
long way:
勉強しないといかない
casual short way:
勉強しないと
think the long way is usually spelled out in grammar books but not sure you know the short way.
Casual Abbreviations - imabi - 2012-07-24
There are actually many ways to actually going about saying "must not". I will use the verb 行く to demonstrate. They'll all be varied in terms of politeness and what not.
行かなければなりません
行かなければならぬ
行かなけりゃいけん
行かなくちゃだめ
行かなくちゃ
行かなきゃ
行かなけりゃだめ
行かなけりゃいかん
行かなくてはいけない
行かなくてはならない
行かないと
行かなくてはいけません
行かなあかんで
Ugh
Pretty much you have these possible starts
‐なくて（は）
‐なければ
‐ねば
‐ないと
は shows contrast and highlights the negative, but it's not impossible to see it omitted. I certainly have seen it omitted before.
You have your contractions and dialect starts
‐なくちゃ
‐なきゃ
‐なけりゃ
‐な
Then you have your endings
‐なるまい
‐ならない
‐いけない
‐ゆけない
‐だめ
You have of course just using 行かないと
You have the Kansai favorite ～なあかんで
I'm not getting into the differences in using these variations. I'm just listing them.
You can also consider using different variants of ～ない: ん、ぬ、ねー。There are many dialectical variations of いけない too.
I haven't even gotten to polite/formal versions, excluding なるまい--which is quite stiff and old.
Casual Abbreviations - Rina - 2012-07-25
where is なけりゃ from?
Casual Abbreviations - JimmySeal - 2012-07-25
CarolinaCG Wrote:where is なけりゃ from?なけりゃ is a contraction of なければ.
Casual Abbreviations - imabi - 2012-07-25
CarolinaCG Wrote:where is なけりゃ from?You haven't heard this before? れば → りゃ is common with all other verbs and adjectives too.
けりゃ → きゃ.
Casual Abbreviations - Rina - 2012-07-26
JimmySeal Wrote:I know. I meant, where in Japan is that contraction used.CarolinaCG Wrote:where is なけりゃ from?なけりゃ is a contraction of なければ.
Casual Abbreviations - JimmySeal - 2012-07-26
CarolinaCG Wrote:To the best of my knowledge, anywhere.JimmySeal Wrote:I know. I meant, where in Japan is that contraction used.CarolinaCG Wrote:where is なけりゃ from?なけりゃ is a contraction of なければ.
Casual Abbreviations - Rina - 2012-07-26
oh good to know. I use it a lot and was afraid of being mixing standard japanese with some dialect. thanks!