kanji koohii FORUM
Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - Printable Version

+- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com)
+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: General discussion (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-8.html)
+--- Thread: Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! (/thread-8817.html)

Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - animehunter123 - 2011-12-22

I noticed that Goo.ne.jp's dictionary has a mistake! Wow, thanks to RTK Radical studies I caught this:

here is the definition：

もぎ‐と・る【×捥ぎ取る】

［動ラ五（四）］
１ もいで取る。「枝からリンゴを―・る」
２ 無理やり取り上げる。「子供の手からおもちゃを―・る」




notice anything wrong?

Its Not: 【×捥ぎ取る】
its actually: 【×椀ぎ取る】


Am I right? Please verify. If so, Yay! Smile Just need to tell them about this fix Smile

Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - animehunter123 - 2011-12-22

or, are both correct?

Any kanji experts can advice?

Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - Jarvik7 - 2011-12-22

err, the definition as you pasted it is right.

椀 means bowl...

Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - kitakitsune - 2011-12-22

haha

Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - yudantaiteki - 2011-12-22

Yeah, both are definitely not correct -- only 捥 is. (I guess that kanji isn't on the JIS-1 or 2 set, typing it in puts me into unicode mode).

Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - temporary - 2011-12-22

For me, it seems obvious that the meanings are related to hand or finger (snatching), therefore the correct is the one with the てへん (手,扌). None of the meanings has to do anything with trees.

Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - Thora - 2011-12-22

椀　shows up for もぎとる　if I hover with Rikaichan, but not in Edict's entry. Does that mean it's an old dictionary file and there's no need to report an Edict error?

Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - netsplitter - 2011-12-22

Thora Wrote:椀　shows up for もぎとる　if I hover with Rikaichan, but not in Edict's entry. Does that mean it's an old dictionary file and there's no need to report an Edict error?
Yes. It was amended in August.

And update your rikaichan dictionary while you're at it. It appears as a separate plugin and doesn't update when the main one does. It also tells you the date it was compiled. Mine's on 110814 (2011 Aug 14). 3 days earlier and it wouldn't have this fix in it!

Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - animehunter123 - 2011-12-22

Thora Wrote:椀　shows up for もぎとる　if I hover with Rikaichan, but not in Edict's entry. Does that mean it's an old dictionary file and there's no need to report an Edict error?
Me too. That is why I was not sure which character was accurate. Anyone know? Edict has a meaning but Kojien and Goo are different

Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - kitakitsune - 2011-12-22

There's no 椀ぐ verb in Japanese.

Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - Thora - 2011-12-22

netsplitter Wrote:And update your rikaichan dictionary while you're at it. It appears as a separate plugin and doesn't update when the main one does.
Good to know. Thanks. Current JE one is Nov 13.

Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - temporary - 2011-12-22

animehunter123 Wrote:
Thora Wrote:椀　shows up for もぎとる　if I hover with Rikaichan, but not in Edict's entry. Does that mean it's an old dictionary file and there's no need to report an Edict error?
Me too. That is why I was not sure which character was accurate. Anyone know? Edict has a meaning but Kojien and Goo are different
If you'd really used your radical knowledge beside the dictionary, you wouldn't have missed it.Wink There are less intuitive cases, of course, like 医 and 疾 which seems like a mix-up of the やまいだれ(疒) and the はこがまえ(匚).

Anyway, if anyone interested, here is a recent EDICT + ENAMDICT for Stardict and Goldendict: http://www.multiupload.com/4P85RARCAK.

Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - zigmonty - 2011-12-22

animehunter123 Wrote:
Thora Wrote:椀　shows up for もぎとる　if I hover with Rikaichan, but not in Edict's entry. Does that mean it's an old dictionary file and there's no need to report an Edict error?
Me too. That is why I was not sure which character was accurate. Anyone know? Edict has a meaning but Kojien and Goo are different
Wait... EDICT conflicted with a proper J-J dictionary and you sided with EDICT?

Edit: Did you get thrown by the fact that 捥 isn't in heisig? There's plenty of used kanji that he didn't cover. That said, google's IME refuses to input the word with that kanji in it so i'm guessing it's not super common?

Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - yudantaiteki - 2011-12-22

temporary Wrote:There are less intuitive cases, of course, like 医 and 疾 which seems like a mix-up of the やまいだれ(疒) and the はこがまえ(匚).
Look up the traditional form of 医 and the word 疾病.

Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - temporary - 2011-12-22

I started learning Japanese with the Remembering the Kanji and so I rarely experienced the kanji newbie's frustration who don't know the bushu. Once I was reading something without a dictionary at hand, and encountered these two kanji in the same sentence, I don't remember the particular words. I correctly inferred the meaning of the words (疾 related to speed, 医 to medicine) but also observed the unfitting radicals and that really confused me. By now I know that 疾 also means 'disease' in 眼疾, 耳疾, 鼻疾, etc. but these are not as common as 疾走.

The traditional for of 医 is 醫, 'a hidden arrow and a missile flying to the west' (in Heisig-terms). What does this mean? We need a doctor, NOW? Wink

Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - Fillanzea - 2011-12-22

I love having a kanwa dictionary that includes the derivation of kanji. The top parts are phonetic for えい　(later became い) and have the meaning of 澄む, and the bottom part is not west but 酒 (without the water radical).

薬として用いる澄んだ酒の意から、「いやす」意となった。

Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - temporary - 2011-12-22

Fillanzea Wrote:the bottom part is not west but 酒 (without the water radical)
Well, yeah, I'm out of practice, I missed the leftover whisky at the bottom... Smile

My 漢字源 says practically the same, with the addition that 醫 and 医 were originally different characters, only recently treated as a traditional-simplified pair.

It writes:

医{名}矢をしまいこむ箱。うつぼ。

and

医エイは、もと「匸(かくす)+矢」で、矢をしまいこむ容器。

In English, 医 is a quiver. How is that connected to doctors, I still can't see...

The full article:

《意味》
(A)【醫】{名}病気を治す人。また、病気を治す術。「医師」「医来=医来タル」〔→孟子〕
イス{動}いやす。病気や、不調な点を治す。治療する。「医渇=渇ヲ医ス」
(B)【医】{名}矢をしまいこむ箱。うつぼ。
《解字》
(B)【医】会意。医エイは、もと「匸(かくす)+矢」で、矢をしまいこむ容器。(A)【醫】会意。上部は、医エイに殳印を加えて、しまいこみ隠す動作を示す。醫はそれと酉(さけつぼ)を合わせた字で、酒つぼに薬草を封じこみ、薬酒をかもすことを示す。医者はもと、みこ(巫フ)と同じ仕事だったので、醫の酉を巫に代えた異体字もある。医エイと醫は、もと別字だが、今は医を醫の略字として用いる。▽秦シン・漢以後、針と艾モグサの熱を利用する針灸シンキュウと、草根木皮の成分を利用する本草療法とにわかれた。また、漢方医を中医、西洋の医術を用いる医者を西医という。

Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - Omoishinji - 2011-12-22

I have encountered simplify problems with the 新漢字源, but it was only a problem that was caused during editing thus fixed in the version I have. It wasn't only 8 incorrect 漢字.

医 isn't arrow, but 矢 is. I don't know where the association with 亡くす came from as the radical for the two Kanji are different. 医 means to cure or doctor.

「矢でいけたきずをなおす医者。」 The radical is カクシがまえ or ハコがまえ, and is 医 minus 矢.

The radial for 醫 is さけのとり or ひよみのとり. The radical is 酉（とり）.　酒の酉 is easier to remember. I will have to take the time and look at 漢字源 if I can find one.

Found a mistake in a Japanese Dictionary! Wow, RTK is AWESOME! - howtwosavealif3 - 2011-12-22

うぬぼれんなよ