Using Lang-8 Effectively - Printable Version

Using Lang-8 Effectively - Printable Version

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Using Lang-8 Effectively - ta12121 - 2011-11-20

Can anyone give me tips to get the most out of Lang-8. If there are any threads about this(I can't seem to find them), please link them in this thread. So far I'm noticing where the mistakes are being made(there simple mistakes actually). Anyhow, if anyone has/still using lang-8, I would love to hear their story.

Using Lang-8 Effectively - Khakionion - 2011-11-20

Write a lot, contribute your own corrections a lot, and get better over time? I dunno, I think you may be overthinking it.

Using Lang-8 Effectively - mutley - 2011-11-20

One of the main disadvantages pointed out about Lang-8 is that most people will just correct your obvious grammar/kanji mistakes but not the overall style of your writing, so you might get 8 people pointing out a mistake that was just a typo but noone helping with the overall style of your sentences. Possible ways around that are:
-getting people who correct your entries regularly, who realise the mistakes you are making over and over again, and are willing to take a bit of time to explain them
-spend time checking very carefully for typos

Using Lang-8 Effectively - jettyke - 2011-11-20

Get most out of Lang-8?

I'm not sure if it's true or even good advice, but what I'd say is

Don't write things for the sake of Lang-8.

Use lang-8 as a tool to correct those things that you write anyway, especially before sending those things to other people.

I think that it will motivate you to cope with lang-8 more, because writing things just for the sake of lang-8 might be boring and you may burn out fast.

Take this with a grain of salt.

Using Lang-8 Effectively - jettyke - 2011-11-20

mutley Wrote:One of the main disadvantages pointed out about Lang-8 is that most people will just correct your obvious grammar/kanji mistakes but not the overall style of your writing,

In that case, upload the corrected new version again, and write that now you want to get your style corrected in the first sentence.

Using Lang-8 Effectively - wccrawford - 2011-11-20

mutley Wrote:One of the main disadvantages pointed out about Lang-8 is that most people will just correct your obvious grammar/kanji mistakes but not the overall style of your writing, so you might get 8 people pointing out a mistake that was just a typo but noone helping with the overall style of your sentences. Possible ways around that are:
-getting people who correct your entries regularly, who realise the mistakes you are making over and over again, and are willing to take a bit of time to explain them
-spend time checking very carefully for typos

Stop making basic mistakes and people will correct the less basic ones.

When I correct English learners, I tailor my mistakes to their level. If they are making really basic mistakes, I don't change their sentences much. If they are obviously higher level, sometimes I will rewrite entire sentences, if needed to make them sound fluid.

Using Lang-8 Effectively - ta12121 - 2011-11-20

So a lot of people will correct your grammar/kanji usage,etc but not the overall feel of the paragraph. Well that means that I should use language-8 for the purpose of correction and improving my writing/introductions,etc. I was looking around at the AJATT comments are found that someone cloze deleted where they made the mistkae from and reproduce that small section or sections. May help with not screwing up the readings/kanji usage/grammar but the overall feel will be another battle.

Using Lang-8 Effectively - AlexandreC - 2011-11-21

ta12121 Wrote:So a lot of people will correct your grammar/kanji usage,etc but not the overall feel of the paragraph.

I get plenty of people making corrections to make things sound more natural. Some people correct and say the corrections weren't necessary but make the text better. You'll get ALL kinds of corrections, so I disagreee.

I still haven't devised a plan to make the most of the corrections, though. I read them and absorb what I can, when they aren't contradictory...

Using Lang-8 Effectively - mutley - 2011-11-21

I'm not saying that you can't get helpful corrections to make your writing more natural, just that often they will be in the minority (especially until you get some people willing to read your posts and correct them regularly).

Looking at some of the corrections of English posts will show you the pretty huge variation in quality of the corrections people give. Some of that can be attributed to corrections by non-native speakers but there are also plenty of corrections by natives where they fail to correct major errors, misinterpret what the poster was actually trying to write, or even just give completely incorrect corrections. On the positive side of things though there are some people who will take the time to give you really good advice.

Using Lang-8 Effectively - Zgarbas - 2011-11-21

Remember to always write the English translation of what you said below if you want a really accurate correction. Try to keep it to the same level as what you wrote in Japanese.

e.g. if you say スーパーを行った。たくさん野菜を買った。 The translation should be "I went to the supermarket. I bought lots of vegetables.", not "Today I bought lots of vegetables from the store" or whatever sounds better in English. It's also a good exercise to see how you sound when you use Japanese (I, for one, sound like a very slow 4-year-old). You can use more proper English for the translations, but expect your whole sentences to be changed accordingly Smile

.

Try to push yourself. Don't hesitate to use a dictionary and don't think twice about making mistakes. If you stick to just what you know for sure you aren't going to make much progress.

Be nice, make corrections of your own, remember to give thanks points. It's a community, after all.

And don't hesitate to ask people if you don't understand their corrections. Most of them are happy to answer.

Using Lang-8 Effectively - Splatted - 2011-11-21

Zgarbas Wrote:スーパーを行った。たくさん野菜を買った。

Sorry if this is unwanted advice, but I think this should be スーパーに行った。たくさんの野菜を買った。

Edit: I'm not certain about the の、but a quick google seemed to confirm it. As far as I could see, たくさん was used without の　before verbs, and with の before nouns.

Using Lang-8 Effectively - Tori-kun - 2011-11-21

Splatted Wrote:
Zgarbas Wrote:スーパーを行った。たくさん野菜を買った。
Sorry if this is unwanted advice, but I think this should be スーパーに行った。たくさんの野菜を買った。

Edit: I'm not certain about the の、but a quick google seemed to confirm it. As far as I could see, たくさん was used without の　before verbs, and with の before nouns.

Agreed, I make this mistake sometimes, too due to that sentence structure: XにはYがたくさんある・いる。 (たくさん is an adjective here, but as Splatted pointed out, it can function also as a noun.)

Using Lang-8 Effectively - quark - 2011-11-21

Tori-kun Wrote:
Splatted Wrote:
Zgarbas Wrote:スーパーを行った。たくさん野菜を買った。
Sorry if this is unwanted advice, but I think this should be スーパーに行った。たくさんの野菜を買った。

Edit: I'm not certain about the の、but a quick google seemed to confirm it. As far as I could see, たくさん was used without の　before verbs, and with の before nouns.
Agreed, I make this mistake sometimes, too due to that sentence structure: XにはYがたくさんある・いる。 (たくさん is an adjective here, but as Splatted pointed out, it can function also as a noun.)

I thought it would be 'takusan na', since it's an adjective. There's a good chance I'm wrong though, since grammar is definitely not a strong point. If you want, I can ask my Japanese friend if it should be no or na.
Oh, and sorry for the romaji. This computer doesn't have an IME installed on it.

Using Lang-8 Effectively - Zgarbas - 2011-11-21

More advice. When you make such obvious mistakes, do not let it get to you.

>.<.

Thanks for the correction =).

Using Lang-8 Effectively - kainzero - 2011-11-21

For me...

-The more you write, the better you get at it
I actually don't review my corrections that much unless it's completely wrong. Naturally you'll find your own style and sometimes you just need to keep writing and writing to find out what you're deficient at when you need to express something.
-Write something interesting
If your entry is naturally interesting then more people will read it. Include pictures and Youtube links if you can.
-Do your best to make long term friends
The majority of Lang-8 users drop out of Lang-8. If you can find long term friends they'll be much more useful since they can identify your style and provide better corrections since you can ask them directly. To do this, leave comments thanking them for the corrections, ask about their corrections. If they leave a comment be sure to reply back. Check their journal and comment or correct. Right now I don't even open my posts to the public; I usually just post it to friends only.

Usually I just glance at the corrections. Usually it's a simple mistake that I should've been able to spot before (intransitive vs. transitive, particle misuse, etc.) but there are times when I had no idea what to express something and purposely wrote it wrong just to see what they'll think.

Providing English translations is good at first but eventually you'll get over it and just write strictly Japanese. It makes sense. It's like writing English compositions that need corrections; you don't need an alternate language. Sometimes I provide English translations just to be polite to the Japanese correctors who want to learn English.

Zgarbas Wrote:Remember to always write the English translation of what you said below if you want a really accurate correction. Try to keep it to the same level as what you wrote in Japanese.

e.g. if you say スーパーを行った。たくさん野菜を買った。 The translation should be "I went to the supermarket. I bought lots of vegetables.", not "Today I bought lots of vegetables from the store" or whatever sounds better in English. It's also a good exercise to see how you sound when you use Japanese (I, for one, sound like a very slow 4-year-old). You can use more proper English for the translations, but expect your whole sentences to be changed accordingly .

I disagree with this, mostly because there's a lot of grammar that's not 1:1.
This is kind of a cheap example but...
山ほど言いたい事がある
-(To the degree of a mountain there are things I want to say.)
-(There's a ton I want to say.)

This correction was made recently for me:
-Be more considerate!
思いやろう！×
もう少しまわりの人の事も考えようよ！〇
もっと人のことを思いやれよ。〇
思いやろう！（もう少し）人のことも考えろよ！〇
他の人を思いやろうよ！〇

As long as it's not exceptionally more detailed you should be fine. Remember your goal is to get better at Japanese, not to get the most accurate English translation and you should work on making sure your Japanese is understood properly.

Using Lang-8 Effectively - Zgarbas - 2011-11-21

I provide English translations because I often make mistakes which make the text hard to understand. And because that way the people who correct my entries also get something out of it. But...

kainzero Wrote:I disagree with this, mostly because there's a lot of grammar that's not 1:1.

I think I may have expressed it wrongly. Mot-a-mot translations are ok for very simple sentences, but what I was trying to get to is that they should express the same thing, at the same level. For example, I use very simple Japanese in my entries, so my English versions are equally simplistic. This could be the translator in me yelling the basic rule of "when translating a text you need to translate everything about it accurately, otherwise you're just making a text of your own", though.

Using Lang-8 Effectively - Splatted - 2011-11-21

quark Wrote:
Tori-kun Wrote:
Splatted Wrote:Sorry if this is unwanted advice, but I think this should be スーパーに行った。たくさんの野菜を買った。

Edit: I'm not certain about the の、but a quick google seemed to confirm it. As far as I could see, たくさん was used without の　before verbs, and with の before nouns.
Agreed, I make this mistake sometimes, too due to that sentence structure: XにはYがたくさんある・いる。 (たくさん is an adjective here, but as Splatted pointed out, it can function also as a noun.)
I thought it would be 'takusan na', since it's an adjective. There's a good chance I'm wrong though, since grammar is definitely not a strong point. If you want, I can ask my Japanese friend if it should be no or na.
Oh, and sorry for the romaji. This computer doesn't have an IME installed on it.

It's definitely の、 but I've no idea why. Googling たくさんな results in lots of instances of たくさん followed by a word beggining with な　and a wictionary page that says たくさんな is possible but たくさんの is much more common, so that seems pretty conclusive to me. What I was unsure about is whether or not a particle was actually necassary there. It just sounds wrong to me without though.

Using Lang-8 Effectively - ta12121 - 2011-11-21

Zgarbas Wrote:More advice. When you make such obvious mistakes, do not let it get to you.

>.<.

Thanks for the correction =).

Have to agree here, I don't let it get to me that I'm being corrected a lot. I know everyone at some point will be horrible at Japanese but eventually will be good at some point too.

Using Lang-8 Effectively - ta12121 - 2011-11-21

AlexandreC Wrote:
ta12121 Wrote:So a lot of people will correct your grammar/kanji usage,etc but not the overall feel of the paragraph.
I get plenty of people making corrections to make things sound more natural. Some people correct and say the corrections weren't necessary but make the text better. You'll get ALL kinds of corrections, so I disagreee.

I still haven't devised a plan to make the most of the corrections, though. I read them and absorb what I can, when they aren't contradictory...

I got them too. They explain how some of my writing is correct but it also can go either way at times. One thing they notice is,my kanji usage is correct. I'm being corrected a lot but it will be because of this reason, I will get better and better.

Using Lang-8 Effectively - quark - 2011-11-21

Splatted Wrote:It's definitely の、 but I've no idea why. Googling たくさんな results in lots of instances of たくさん followed by a word beggining with な　and a wictionary page that says たくさんな is possible but たくさんの is much more common, so that seems pretty conclusive to me. What I was unsure about is whether or not a particle was actually necassary there. It just sounds wrong to me without though.

I did ask my Japanese friend, and you're right, it is の。　I did ask her about using な and she said that you can use な　but の　was better especially for that sentence. She couldn't explain why, though.
I'll ask my other friend about it tomorrow. You've got me all curious about this now.