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Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - exrulez - 2011-11-19
Hey guys!!
I've been learning japanese for over 11 years.
During my language learning i have encountered many mental blocks and challenges which have stopped me or added friction to my learning.
With experience and reframing of certain limiting beliefs i have taken my language skills to new levels.
My quesiton here is , what language barriers, blocks, challenges are people experiencing right now and how are they addressing them?
Which ones are the most frustrating?
Technique is very important but mental inner game towards language learning i think is extremely powerful.
Looking forward to hearing everyone's responses.
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - jettyke - 2011-11-19
Good idea for a thread
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - exrulez - 2011-11-19
Thanks jettyke
Okay i'll start
One of my current challenges is that i'm at a level where i can
write , read and basically say anything i want.
However my new level to reach is
better explanation skills on a professional level.
Be more logical, be more precise, have better japanese word cushions and seem more fluent.
Another one is business letters and writing.
I work in the technical customer service world (in japanese),
and i used to think that i had to write super fancy de gozaimasu stuff,
but now i realize that the cleaner , the simpler, the better because the customer wants to get their problems solved, but also since japanese people tend to be so anal about the details, i have to be very logical and precise.
Also (crazy idea) working in a full japanese team around me
tends to be demotivating (and motivating ) sometimes because
you can't avoid comparing yourself even though you are foreign.
So this is a very huge internal mental challenge I experience.
Reading long and hard email threads with yaritori (interactions with customers)
is also a huge challenge for me now.
I can be reading a huge 20 email post about what cause a problem, how they will fix it, how they will prevent it and being able to contribute to that is a pretty strong challenge for me, because it requires reading , comprehension and writing skills.
Just my current blocks, doesn't matter what the level everyone is
i'm looking forward to hearing everybody's challenges.
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - prink - 2011-11-21
Procrastination is my biggest problem. Progress comes so slowly, and I can't seem to put down the video games to get any work done.
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - leosmith - 2011-11-21
lack of time, of course
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - jettyke - 2011-11-21
leosmith Wrote:lack of time, of course.
Which is caused by...?
Lack of time management?
Which is caused by...?
Lack of time?
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - leosmith - 2011-11-21
jettyke Wrote:huh? nice use of emotions, btwleosmith Wrote:lack of time, of course.
Which is caused by...?
Lack of time management?
Which is caused by...?
Lack of time?
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - jettyke - 2011-11-21
leosmith Wrote:'Lack of time' is the cause of 'lack of time management' which causes 'lack of time' and the loop goes on and on. Was the idea/point.jettyke Wrote:huh? nice use of emotions, btwleosmith Wrote:lack of time, of course.
Which is caused by...?
Lack of time management?
Which is caused by...?
Lack of time?
I don't get the emoticon part though :/
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - shinsen - 2011-11-21
I wonder if there are people that got to the point where the TV shows become boring (you know, the never ending variety shows, where the crowd always goes "Heeeeh~" and the hosts are always the same celebrities and always eating...), most anime and manga seem so otaku (after you've talked with real otaku and stopped fooling yourself into thinking you're one). Mixi seems superficial and you've given up updating and commenting a couple years ago, etc. etc.
My main mental block is that I think I took a bit long and now a lot of things that are exciting to learners of Japanese have lost their glow. Yet I'm not in Japan, so that leaves me with little to go on.
One other block (mental or not) is that when you're over 30 you can't just go meet Japanese students in your area and expect to make friends.
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - pudding cat - 2011-11-21
shinsen Wrote:I wonder if there are people that got to the point where the TV shows become boring (you know, the never ending variety shows, where the crowd always goes "Heeeeh~" and the hosts are always the same celebrities and always eating...), most anime and manga seem so otaku (after you've talked with real otaku and stopped fooling yourself into thinking you're one). Mixi seems superficial and you've given up updating and commenting a couple years ago, etc. etc.I've never enjoyed variety shows, I tried once for about a week to make myself watch them but it's hard to focus on something that bores you stupid... Fortunately I can generally find a couple of drama to watch each season.
My problem at the moment are speaking formal/business-sounding Japanese. I've never had to use it before so it takes a while to form decent sentences with it.
How I'm trying to overcome it is making an anki deck and add a few flashcards at a time with generic phrases on the front (e.g. I would like to..., Would it be possible to...) and the Japanese on the back.
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - kainzero - 2011-11-21
shinsen Wrote:I wonder if there are people that got to the point where the TV shows become boring (you know, the never ending variety shows, where the crowd always goes "Heeeeh~" and the hosts are always the same celebrities and always eating...), most anime and manga seem so otaku (after you've talked with real otaku and stopped fooling yourself into thinking you're one). Mixi seems superficial and you've given up updating and commenting a couple years ago, etc. etc.it's not that much different than american TV when i think about it.
the reality shows with the leprechaun judge and the overly nice judge, the detective/law tv shows which feature some guy who has a special quirk (which is not unique to japan), facebook is superficial, the laugh track that plays, etc.
remember when al bundy would appear on married with children and he'd have to wait for his minute of applause to die down? lol.
when i get that same feeling, i step away from TV, doesn't matter what country's programming it is. =)
(it's just too bad that japanese variety shows powered my learning for the last year, now i have to find something else.)
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - dizmox - 2011-11-21
shinsen Wrote:I wonder if there are people that got to the point where the TV shows become boring (you know, the never ending variety shows, where the crowd always goes "Heeeeh~" and the hosts are always the same celebrities and always eating...)Of course. TV sucks anywhere. Japanese TV is 90% adverts too.
Quote:most anime and manga seem so otaku (after you've talked with real otaku and stopped fooling yourself into thinking you're one)Not sure about the meaning of this one. Did you think the popular, normal kids stay up to watch the late night moe?
I get shit from my girlfriend all the time for not knowing what music is "in" and for singing anime songs at karaoke lol.
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - kainzero - 2011-11-21
dizmox Wrote:I get shit from my girlfriend all the time for not knowing what music is "in" and for singing anime songs at karaoke lol.i got shit from my friends the other day for not singing anime songs at karaoke and singing what's "in." hahah
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - dizmox - 2011-11-21
Note to self: avoid people who are passionate about music to the point of requiring others to share their tastes
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - vonPeterhof - 2011-11-21
dizmox Wrote:Reminds me of this picture - its author apparently thought exactly thatQuote:most anime and manga seem so otaku (after you've talked with real otaku and stopped fooling yourself into thinking you're one)Not sure about the meaning of this one. Did you think the popular, normal kids stay up to watch the late night moe?
On a related note, after finding out what the word "otaku" means in Japan, and after having watched 電車男 (the drama, not the movie), I tried fooling myself into thinking I am NOT one
I think the reason why most anime and manga seem so otaku is that, aside from a few cash cow long-runners with somewhat mainstream popularity, most anime and manga these days are made FOR otaku. Since a large percentage of series in a given season will be aired between 22:00 and 04:00 ("otaku o'clock"), pandering to the otaku base is to be expected.
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - shinsen - 2011-11-21
dizmox Wrote:Not sure about the meaning of this one. Did you think the popular, normal kids stay up to watch the late night moe?No, I didn't think that. But I did think that I was genuinely interested in anime and the otaku culture. After all, it was through anime that I came to love Japan and the language. What changed? As I got older, I started finding it more difficult to find anime I could stay awake through. Maybe I started falling out of the target audience bracket but the interest slowly faded.
When I came to Tokyo I made a beeline for Akihabara since I had been convinced that it was the place to go for any self-respecting Japan lover. After the initial excitement of "Yay! I'm finally here, this is so amazing!" I kind of woke up to the fact that I couldn't find anything of personal interest there.
Somewhere between aimlessly roaming around the countless eroge and godzilla figures in the depths of Akihabara, then stumbling around Comike with eyes glazed over, then an excruciatingly boring date with a Japanese anime otaku girl (I'm sure some dudes here would kill for that), somewhere in there I woke up to the fact that anime had just been my way of experiencing Japan. Once I got there, it was Japan itself, the people and the language that I found exciting. I made some friends and the most exhilarating thing for me was just to be a part of their normal lives, speaking their language and sharing their culture. Anyway, that's just my personal experience and someone like Danny Choo will feel totally differently.
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - dizmox - 2011-11-21
I've lost interest in anime mostly because I feel I've watched enough now. I was looking forward to the new HxH but can't be bothered with all the censoring, so I'm just going back and watching Usagi Drop at the moment since the film came out. I want to get more into light novels and games now.
You shouldn't have to kill to find a fujoshi, there's plenty of them.
Akiba and Nipponbashi beat hanging out in regular malls and shopping districts I think at least, with the right company...
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - kainzero - 2011-11-21
vonPeterhof Wrote:I think the reason why most anime and manga seem so otaku is that, aside from a few cash cow long-runners with somewhat mainstream popularity, most anime and manga these days are made FOR otaku. Since a large percentage of series in a given season will be aired between 22:00 and 04:00 ("otaku o'clock"), pandering to the otaku base is to be expected.there was a post linked somewhere here explaining it.
even most otaku DVR their series.
but from that post, the author was saying that otaku-hour anime have more merchandising, they don't choose multiple series every season like the otaku here but stick with one or two series for a while.
speaking of which, did they finally close the streets again on the weekends again in akiba? i never got to see that.
i might head to comiket this year too.
i want to see the madness and then swear off anime forever =)
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - ta12121 - 2011-11-21
What I've found to be difficult is, once you reach a certain point, it may get harder to reach new heights. Starting something new is probably the hardest thing to do but maintaining it is probably even more harder. If you can maintain a learning environment, you will succeed. It really comes down to a mindset. If you keep thinking and doing something about your learning. You will get far.
What I find really annoying now is, I want that complete fluency but I know it will take more time. It's hard but I know I will get to my goal in a few years, I just need to keep myself interested and also keep learning.
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - vix86 - 2011-11-22
shinsen Wrote:No, I didn't think that. But I did think that I was genuinely interested in anime and the otaku culture. After all, it was through anime that I came to love Japan and the language. What changed? As I got older, I started finding it more difficult to find anime I could stay awake through. Maybe I started falling out of the target audience bracket but the interest slowly faded.I can actually sort of understand this sentiment and the one that many people have mentioned.
When I came to Tokyo I made a beeline for Akihabara since I had been convinced that it was the place to go for any self-respecting Japan lover. After the initial excitement of "Yay! I'm finally here, this is so amazing!" I kind of woke up to the fact that I couldn't find anything of personal interest there.
Somewhere between aimlessly roaming around the countless eroge and godzilla figures in the depths of Akihabara, then stumbling around Comike with eyes glazed over, then an excruciatingly boring date with a Japanese anime otaku girl (I'm sure some dudes here would kill for that), somewhere in there I woke up to the fact that anime had just been my way of experiencing Japan. Once I got there, it was Japan itself, the people and the language that I found exciting. I made some friends and the most exhilarating thing for me was just to be a part of their normal lives, speaking their language and sharing their culture. Anyway, that's just my personal experience and someone like Danny Choo will feel totally differently.
Anime got me interested in Japan and I've continued to watch it over the years but I guess growing up and getting older has just made me more critical of what I watch. This applies to everything in my life now though. I now realize why my father when I was younger, would only watch the first part of some movies that we would rent. He had seen a ton of movies prior to this one that were exactly similar plot lines and everything. I can't really sit down and watch a full shonen series in one sitting now because its too repetitive. (I have realized though that the thing that MIGHT make shonen series probably bearable is if you watch/read them in an episode each weak or chapter each week format.)
I've noticed the trend for marketing more and more heavily toward Otaku as well. Many people have noted it in Japan as well and honestly the series that are most memorable to normal fans and otaku alike are the "original" series which aren't flat out pandering-to-the-otaku animes. But really a lot of this has to do with the fact that the anime market is shrinking. They don't make nearly the same amount of money these days that they did years ago, so I suspect they are struggling to try and optimize the amount of income on stuff by targeting their audiences.
I will say though I'm trying to find that jp otaku girl my self. I'm pretty interested in seeing what sort of characters they are compared to some of the ones I've met/seen in the states.
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On the thread topic:
My problem is the time issue. The amount of time I'm willing to devout to studying is really only enough to fit in studying on one thing. I've prioritized learning more and more vocabulary from the Core6k over anything else. I still want to try and work on a sentence deck for grammar and still need to finish the RTK as well. Just not enough time. Maybe when I finish seeing every card in the 6k I will have more time because then it will simply be reviewing and maturing. Till then...
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - ta12121 - 2011-11-22
@vix86
Time is a huge factor for me. A lot of people want to do a lot in a day(me too) but I've found setting a certain amount a day(small amount) will get you farther than setting a high amount daily. This can relate to adding cards,immersion,reading,speaking,writing,etc.
I've revamped my decks and now I only add 30 new cards in my sentence deck(break it down to 10 each, so it's one for general sentences, MCD sentences and production type sentence cards). Vocab I try to add 50 new cards per day but adding monolingual cards+looking up any words I don't understand in JP-JP dictionary is time consuming. It may take time but I was doing at least 5 times more than what I'm doing now.
So break it down and set your standard low and you will get more down each day. I know it sounds like I'm saying put yourself down but I'm just saying make it smaller and you will get far.
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - Realism - 2011-11-22
shinsen Wrote:You're just not finding the good stuff.dizmox Wrote:Not sure about the meaning of this one. Did you think the popular, normal kids stay up to watch the late night moe?No, I didn't think that. But I did think that I was genuinely interested in anime and the otaku culture. After all, it was through anime that I came to love Japan and the language. What changed? As I got older, I started finding it more difficult to find anime I could stay awake through. Maybe I started falling out of the target audience bracket but the interest slowly faded.
Read these manga:
http://www.7netshopping.jp/books/detail/-/accd/1102676357/subno/1
This is my favorite, it's about a loan shark to loans money to gangsters and hoodlums...and many times those guys don't want to pay him back because of the high interest rate....and you see how things play out.
http://www.7netshopping.jp/books/detail/-/accd/1102560291/subno/1
Almost similar to the above, a loan shark type of character loans money to thugs and losers, and when they don't pay back he makes their lives more and more miserable.
http://www.7netshopping.jp/books/detail/-/accd/1106035925/subno/1
One of the best manga ever published. This is a classic story about the heroics of Maeda Keiji.
http://www.7netshopping.jp/books/detail/-/accd/1106090119/subno/1
This is a good gangster manga where Japan has become part of the United States, and it's the only place where prostitution and drug dealing is legal. So the Italian Mafia, Chinese Mafia, Yakuza all fight for territory.
http://www.7netshopping.jp/books/detail/-/accd/1102587040/pg_from/rcmd_detail_1102905814
This manga is about King Alexander and him conquer Greece. It's really good.
http://www.7netshopping.jp/books/detail/-/accd/1106047479/subno/1
Gangster Mahjong anime where the main character tortures his opponents after they lose.
None of these manga have any of the "otaku" stuff you're talking about, they're just normal stuff. You can find these in bunch of bookstores.
Japanese learning mental blocks and attitudes - dizmox - 2011-11-22
vix86 Wrote:I will say though I'm trying to find that jp otaku girl my self. I'm pretty interested in seeing what sort of characters they are compared to some of the ones I've met/seen in the states.Not as loud about their hobbies at least...