+- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com)
+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: Remembering the Kanji (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-7.html)
+--- Thread: How to study RTK 2 using this site...? (/thread-8556.html)
How to study RTK 2 using this site...? - sskaggs - 2011-10-18
So I noticed that the 音読み (chinese readings) are attached to the kanji on this site; (you see them when you "browse detailed list" of your kanji).
That being said, is there a way to "turn on" RTK 2 flashcards? That is, is there some way to make it so that you can test yourself for kanji's 音読み during review without having to type them all into the "story" box for every kanji?
Also, how are people using this site to study RTK2? Isn't it necessary to go through kanji sequentially for RTK2? Won't the random or SRS method be detrimental to studying RTK2?
I've only just started RTK2 and any advice on how you use your RTK1 cards on this site to study RTK2 would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
How to study RTK 2 using this site...? - dtcamero - 2011-10-18
here's some advice: don't do RTK2 XD
How to study RTK 2 using this site...? - bertoni - 2011-10-18
Most people here likely don't study RTK2. I did, but that was a while ago. There are some Anki decks available for RTK2, if you're interested.
How to study RTK 2 using this site...? - sskaggs - 2011-10-19
Now I'm curious! Why do people not do RTK2? I've heard about kanji chains and read something about a movie method, but they looked overly complicated...but that's beside the point.
What's the deterrent from doing RTK2?
How to study RTK 2 using this site...? - louischa - 2011-10-19
For RTK2, I did my own Anki deck - just pick any existing RTK1 Anki deck and mod it.
Contrary to what some say, not everyone skips RTK2 here. I did it and I can vouch it is very useful. Learning the on-yomi in a systematic way is a huge advantage for vocabulary acquisition, and it is just a logical step after RTK1. The only thing though I would advise you is to focus on on-yomi and just learn the kun through vocabulary.
How to study RTK 2 using this site...? - Isbilenper - 2011-10-19
sskaggs Wrote:Now I'm curious! Why do people not do RTK2?As far as I know many people have had success with simply learning readings of the kanji in context, thus making an isolated study of the readings unnecessary. That said, I'm not done with RtK 1 myself yet, so I don't have any experience with learning the readings with either RtK 2 or the context method. As you mentioned yourself, there are also a few other methods available, like the movie method.
How to study RTK 2 using this site...? - dtcamero - 2011-10-19
my 2 yen is that japanese is a very context-heavy language. each character will have on average 2 or 3 readings, but sometimes as many as 5 or more. All of these readings are dependent on a specific context for a specific word that uses that specific character, all of which you won't have. You just have an image and a sound to match together, without a clue how to or when to use it.
People here mostly learn readings in context... through text, or fragments of text. Not only do you learn the word in which that reading is appropriate, but also other readings of that character so you can distinguish, and also some context for the real, L2 meaning of that word. I guess the idea is it's better to focus on words in a context, than on kanji once you get past RTK.
There's also something to be said for getting out of the RTK environment and into studying L2 media as soon as possible. RTK is like packing your bags... L2 study is the voyage. RTK allows the actual Japanese language study to take place.
Just to digress for a second, that's one thing that really annoys me about the AJATT forums, that you have all these people who have been studying for years and are still talking about kanji acquisition... they have effectively not left the harbor yet if we are going to continue this extended metaphor...
All that being said RTK2 is knowledge that is useful, it's just not viewed as a very time / energy-efficient study method.
Also I was really turned off by the advertising that said you could go order a subscription to Yomiuri after finishing the whole RTK series. That was absurd bordering on scammy.
How to study RTK 2 using this site...? - louischa - 2011-10-19
Do RTK 2 - it is a very efficient method, especially if one compares to just learning readings in context - for the on-yomi, that is, not the kun-yomi.
Traditional Japanese learning was all about learning in context. It works if you can spend ten years doing it.
How to study RTK 2 using this site...? - Thora - 2011-10-19
skaggs Wrote:Why do people not do RTK2?
Isbilenper Wrote:As far as I know many people have had success with simply learning readings of the kanji in context, thus making an isolated study of the readings unnecessary. That said, I'm not done with RtK 1 myself yet, so I don't have any experience with learning the readings with either RtK 2 or the context method."Context" and "readings" seem to get used in different ways (= in words? in sentences? in native material?) which might cause confusion. So, just in case:
RTK2 doesn't use isolated kanji readings. It presents a compound kanji word for each standard kanji reading. There's no context in the sense that the words are not used in sentences.
Things like movie method, kanji chains, or kanji towns (memory palaces) use kanji readings in isolation (there are no words.)
Resources like _Kanji in Context_ and _2001 Kanji Odyssey_ are specifically designed for learning to read kanji words in context (in sentences). The Core series uses sentences, but I think the vocab is based on frequency rather than Jouyou kanji.
[deleted my opinion on what's better.]
edit:
louischa Wrote:The only thing though I would advise you is to focus on on-yomi and just learn the kun through vocabulary.I assumed Louischa meant focus on the on-yomi vocabulary and skip the kun-yomi section, not focus on the on-yomi as isolated readings.
How to study RTK 2 using this site...? - dalmim - 2011-10-19
To the original question:
I can't see an easy way to add RTK2. Flashcards here don't mirror the format Heisig suggests, so there's no set place for RTK2 compounds and kun-yomi. Anki will probably step in at this point.
As for RTK2, itself, I've spent a couple of days mulling over the book. I finished RTK1 a little bit ago, and will wrap up the Supplement this evening. Chapters 2-5 appear to be a straightforward task and worth the effort. At least they won't hinder as I transition to grammar review and back to reading native texts.
Chapter 2: Pure Groups
Chapter 3: One-Time Chinese Readings
Chapter 4: Characters with No Chinese Readings
Chapter 5: Semi-Pure Groups
I'll see what I gain over the next week or so.
How to study RTK 2 using this site...? - Thora - 2011-10-20
@dtcamero, I agree with you about the benefit of context for learning, but pls note that RTK2 does have words, just not sentences.
Quote:Just to digress for a second, that's one thing that really annoys me about the AJATT forums, that you have all these people who have been studying for years and are still talking about kanji acquisition...Just try to remember that people come from many different Japanese learning backgrounds and time frames. Starting with 2000 kanji is certainly not the most common approach (and for good reasons). (I used RTK and a massive kanji vocab list to thaw out my frozen Japanese. It was more effective than reading.) Well, to help you stay happy and open minded, think of all the folks who know 3000 kanji and 20,000 words yet can't carry on a conversation. Speakers might find that unusual. ;-) /dtcamero's digression
How to study RTK 2 using this site...? - Marble101 - 2011-12-27
When I leafed through it at a bookstore, I saw Chapter 1 was about connecting the kana to their parent kanji.
Is it really necessary to do chapter 1? Not only did I find it confusing, but if dalmin's going to just do chapters 2-5, should I bother learning the kana's parent kanji?
How to study RTK 2 using this site...? - bertoni - 2011-12-27
You can skip chapter 1's explanations of the derivation of the kana. You'll want to know the characters, though. The vocabulary words should be fine for that.