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Simple Grammer questions from sentences in J for Busy P II - matrixofdynamism - 2012-01-17
Unit 5, Pg 214: 金曜日に 仕事が 終わったら、すぐ 車で その マンション に いくます。
Why does the sentence not use 終わるとき or 終わってから instead of 終わったら, here in this senctence? This sentence is said in response to what a person would do if/when ３億円当たったら。
Unit 5, Pg 219: 東京を 出る とき、 雨が 降っていましたが、 箱根に 着いたら 晴れてきました。
The difference between とき and ったら to express "When..." is quite hazy for me. Why not use 着いたとき instead of 着いたら OR 出たら instead of 出る とき? I don't get it. :|
しまう is used to express regret about some action that took place as well. The distinction between the use of しまう and passive form to express something that we regret is hazy for me.
Thankyou very much in Advance.
Simple Grammer questions from sentences in J for Busy P II - yudantaiteki - 2012-01-17
matrixofdynamism Wrote:Unit 5, Pg 214: 金曜日に 仕事が 終わったら、すぐ 車で その マンション に いくます。たら is normally used in this case, to mean "when". てから tends to be used when you want to emphasize the first part and say that it's *after X* that you will do Y. Y tends to be something that's already in the conversation.
Why does the sentence not use 終わるとき or 終わってから instead of 終わったら, here in this senctence? This sentence is said in response to what a person would do if/when ３億円当たったら。
終わるとき would mean that you're going to the apartment right before you finish work, 終わったとき would be possible but I don't think it's as natural.
Quote:Unit 5, Pg 219: 東京を 出る とき、 雨が 降っていましたが、 箱根に 着いたら 晴れてきました。XたらY has to be used in a situation where X is completed (or actualized) before Y. The first part of the sentence is saying that it was raining when he left Tokyo, so たら cannot be used.
The difference between とき and ったら to express "When..." is quite hazy for me. Why not use 着いたとき instead of 着いたら OR 出たら instead of 出る とき? I don't get it. :|
Quote:しまう is used to express regret about some action that took place as well. The distinction between the use of しまう and passive form to express something that we regret is hazy for me..Passives cannot be used to express regret at things the speaker did.
Simple Grammer questions from sentences in J for Busy P II - matrixofdynamism - 2012-01-17
"Passives cannot be used to express regret at things the speaker did." hmm I see
Simple Grammer questions from sentences in J for Busy P II - yudantaiteki - 2012-01-17
More so than that, the passive doesn't express regret. The "adversative passive" shows that you were negatively affected by somebody else doing something.
しまう's basic meaning is a completed action. You see it used in cases where the person is just representing completion, and there is no negative meaning. However, it also sometimes shows that something was unexpectedly done. This usually means unexpected in a negative way, but not always. You sometimes see this used to show positive things as well. It's good to keep a flexible idea of てしまう because if you fix in your mind that it means "regret", you will keep running into seemingly strange uses of it.
Simple Grammer questions from sentences in J for Busy P II - matrixofdynamism - 2012-01-18
WOW dude you have made it so clear for me.
油断大敵さんは私に地平線に暁が見せる。
or perhaps that was bad attempt at trying to be poetic. Oh well,I have just 1 more thing that I have been unable to figure out yet, when it comes to "representing completion". The Verb+てある。 form is also used to do the same e.g 食べてある means "It has been eaten" how is this different from 食べてしまう.
As far as I know てある expresses an action that has been completed, but this cannot replace てしまう for some reason I am yet not sure about.
Simple Grammer questions from sentences in J for Busy P II - yudantaiteki - 2012-01-18
てある is used like the passive in English. It represents something that was done by somebody you either don't know or don't want to mention. 教科書にはそう書いてある, for instance.
Simple Grammer questions from sentences in J for Busy P II - matrixofdynamism - 2012-01-19
hmm, the book did not mention this as well WOW MAN. Cheers!
I have a few different books that I am using to do the study and even though they do explain the concepts themself in a good way, they only rarely go into possible confusions that one might get into by mixing information. Like 例： 話してある。 食べ物が作ってある the translation is "It has been spoken", or the "The food has been made" Thus in both the action is completed.
Do you also think that such a confusion can exist between しまう and てある。
By the way how about replacing the そう in your sentence with 。。。そのみたいの事。。。？
Simple Grammer questions from sentences in J for Busy P II - yudantaiteki - 2012-01-19
そのみたいの事 is not grammatical; それみたいな事 would be possible, そのような事 is good too.