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+--- Thread: Grammar->Image (/thread-8252.html)
Grammar->Image - Mumei2501 - 2011-08-15
I love anki for studying vocab, but grammar is still a work in progress. To cut to the chase, I suspect that I would do much better if I were able to turn the grammar point into something visual and short. The relatively bulky definitions from Kanzen master N2 (over 7~ elements means not able to fit in short term memory, ergo bulky) don't seem to work, and equating it to some other grammar point seems dubious in most cases.
After a little brainstorming I created a few visualizers for some of the cards I made from Kanzen master. Eg:
イ’うえに＋ロ
イ＝whatever comes before...
'=a direct or simple connection with the grammar point
+=represents that the thing that follows is in addition to the earlier part
ロ＝whatever comes after the grammar point
Often there will be an -> involved, and 悪／良、話 indicate good/bad and subjective/point of view (of the speaker).
So far it's super primitive, but it has been a very useful beta. I'm wondering if there are visualization systems for grammar that others know of? I want efficient, not necessarily 100% accurate. Will edit later, but comp battery is done...
Grammar->Image - nest0r - 2011-08-15
You're not memorizing the definitions, right? Your working memory capacity, which depeneds on what you're measuring and your ability to chunk those units, isn't really an issue. You just need to read and apply the metalinguistic information to meaningful examples of usage in order to internalize the rules. If you want to streamline that process I imagine you want to find more of a 1:1 ratio for a given point/nuance and examples (or more examples per point/nuance).
Grammar->Image - Mumei2501 - 2011-08-16
@nest0r:
I'm not trying to memorize the definitions. I am trying to find a way around creating example sentences in my head as I am focusing on recognition and if I were to create my own sentences I worry that I would engrain many a bad habit. Having more, and as you point out more elegant, sentences per grammar point is in the works.
The primary objective of this post was to see if anyone has gone through a similar process with japanese or other language so that I could use or adapt it to my needs. The plan B option is to see what highly elegant ways there are to break down grammar, which appears to be metalinguistics. I think what I'll be looking for is a metalanguage that has relatively few elements (~20-50) that I can then convert to a visual vocabulary/metavariables. I tend to learn things visually much faster than via other routes, in case you're wondering why all the visual focus. Needs more research, but the conduit metaphor looks like it might be a good lead. Feel free to let me know if you have a favorite metalinguistic system : )
@tokyostyle
In brief: I plan to use cloze deletion as an element of my grammar flashcards, I think that they don't fully solve my grammar card issues.
In rant form: I haven't played with cloze deletion for grammar yet but that is also something I plan on doing. One issue that I have in theory with cloze deletion is the fact that I feel that I can often tell you the answer based off of the first word, approximate length of the sentence and other factors that have nothing to do with the grammar at hand. Worth noting I'm also not personally into putting sentences on the front of flashcards for the same reason. As I only have a few cloze deletion cards in my deck it not run into that issue if I had a large number.
Thanks for the responses
ありがとうございました！（関西弁の高低）
Grammar->Image - nest0r - 2011-08-16
Doesn't Kanzen Master provide example sentences? You shouldn't need to create your own. You can probably find more at that JGram site or in decks like the 8555 sentence DOJG deck?
As long as the explanations are accurate, and you're not trying to memorize them, I guess I don't understand why you need to turn them into a visual code? The grammar explanations are already metalinguistic. It doesn't really matter how long they are as long as you understand them. You're trying to come up with a metalanguage for the metalanguage, it seems, and I guess I don't understand why? Just curious. I can understand wanting to develop a shorthand for the explanations that you can refer back to after reading the full explanations, but it seems very low priority to me, more trouble than it's worth. With the below method, by the time you get to where you're referring to the explanations in an abbreviated fashion, you'll be well on your way to having internalized the grammar points, which is what enables you to be less involved with the explanations in the first place.
Why not do it like so: Create the cards, and study the sentences in light of the Kanzen Master explanations of the grammar points, where:
Front: Example sentence, possibly with the elements in the sentence that are relevant to the grammar point in bold.
When you see the sentence, you parse it/mentally deconstruct + reconstruct it or just the bold portion, making sure you understand what the bold part of the sentence is doing, what function it serves in the sentence, as explained by Kanzen Master.
Back: Grammar explanation and other information about the sentence (e.g. translation, and/or overture's Sentence Glossing plugin to break it down) to help you verify that you parsed the sentence correctly; read the explanation and make sure you understand it.
So as I mentioned before, I just meant that if you find the grammar explanations lengthy, rather than translating them into a special code, since you're not memorizing them, you just want to be able to apply them to the sentences, make sure that you have at least 1 sentence (or more, on other cards) per grammar point (or corresponding sentences to each nuance of the point, if you want to divide it further).
For grammar cards, I generally like to have the main points very clear and distinct so I can easily refer back to it, but I also have the other notes on the card in case while I'm looking at it for feedback I want to refine my knowledge by glancing through them, or perhaps create another card illustrating those nuances.