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+--- Thread: White People Can't Read Japanese. (/thread-8238.html)
White People Can't Read Japanese. - mezbup - 2011-08-15
So, who's ever gotten this (even implied) from Japanese people?
K so... anyone who speaks Jap fluently might know what I'm talking about it and I just wanna know that I'm not alone on this. I'm talking about having a conversation with someone for hours in Japanese and having no problems with it... then the next day you get an email from them and its all in Hiragana...
Sorry but that's the point that my blood boils over.
Even then the other day I was having a conversation with a guy for about an hour and he was like ur Jap is perfect you speak like a native... then after a while I started discussing a really interesting book I was reading and he was like... you can READ Japanese???... it's like... OMFG... YES FFS! HOW ON EARTH ELSE DO YOU GET ANY GOOD AT A LANGUAGE??????????????????? WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO? JUST NOT BE ABLE TO READ IT CAUSE THE JAPANESE THINK FOREIGNERS CANT DO IT!??????????????? ....
/rant.
I'd be interested to hear stories. Wanna know I'm not alone in this cos it drives me nucking futs sometimes. Also, what's a good way to avoid this situation/how to deal with it? Sometimes even my friends who KNOW what my Japanese is like still say shit like that... but not my really close ones who I spend lots of time with.
White People Can't Read Japanese. - Jarvik7 - 2011-08-15
Occasionally I get the "wow you can read" comment when I first meet someone, but the conversation quickly changes topic when they discover that I can likely read better than they do
White People Can't Read Japanese. - vileru - 2011-08-15
ごますりだけですよ。日本文化です。気にしないで下さい。
White People Can't Read Japanese. - wccrawford - 2011-08-15
I've been told that after the US bombed them, they had serious pride problems. The government then started spreading the rumor that whitey couldn't learn Japanese. They have been told this for generations now, so it's fairly well sunk-in.
With the internet, and easy communication with actual whiteys, this little lie has been breaking down, of course.
My second language partner, despite me telling her that I understand quite a bit of Japanese, started out saying really basic things, REALLY slow, and ALSO typing them in hiragana in Skype. lol She's finally gotten to the point where she's only slightly slower than normal, and doesn't type at all. (Which is probably the exact point I need her to be, because I'm really not that great.)
And both of them were very surprised that I was reading manga with furigana, even.
Oddly enough, language partner #2 said something that surprised me during our last conversation. She said English was hard, and Japanese was a lot easier, because they don't have to deal with nouns changing according to how many there are, or 'a', 'an', 'the', and 'some'.
That's some wild cognitive dissonance, huh? Japanese is easier, but whitey can't learn it. lol
White People Can't Read Japanese. - SendaiDan - 2011-08-15
vileru, you live in Sendai? That's awesome - I love Sendai
@OP - I know what you mean, though I wouldn't say that I personally speak at a native level.
White People Can't Read Japanese. - mezbup - 2011-08-15
When I visited Japan and a friend of a friend took us on two hour drive up to Nara we we're talking about the song that had just played on the CD player... and I read the name of it フタリ and she's like...wow you can read Katakana!... just makes me wanna die a little.
White People Can't Read Japanese. - vileru - 2011-08-15
wccrawford Wrote:I've been told that after the US bombed them, they had serious pride problems. The government then started spreading the rumor that whitey couldn't learn Japanese. They have been told this for generations now, so it's fairly well sunk-in.I don't buy it. I saw a tv program a while back in which パックン competed on a kanji game show against people who passed 漢字検定1級. Not to mention, ベッキー is constantly showing off her kanji skills on tv (although, to be fair, she was born and raised in Japan).
With all the examples of literate white people in the media, I don't see how any Japanese person can believe that it's impossible for white people to read Japanese. As far as I can tell, they're just being polite. It's so normal for Japanese to exaggerate their compliments that I'm genuinely surprised when they don't.
White People Can't Read Japanese. - GreenAirth - 2011-08-15
I feel your pain. It happened to me yesterday again. I'm walking past the nearby tennis court and say good morning to a guy I've known for five years. He sees the book in my hand and nearly has a heart attack.
"You're reading Japanese?"
"Uhh, yes." I replied.
"What, like Kanji?"
"Of course."
"Of course?"
"Well, you know I've been reading for more than ten years now."
"But that's amazing."
"..."
"What are you reading?"
It was then I could start talking about the book and get off this banal topic. I think the only way out is to talk about whatever you're reading. The next time someone realises you can tell the difference between Pull and Push on a door say, "Ah yeah that reminds me, have you read..."
It's worse when someone who should know better does it to me. He knows I'm always reading something. I mean, come on, he's even lent me books. And yet for some inexplicable reason he will still freak out when I read 魚 on a menu. Stay calm; take deep breaths; it doesn't matter.
And then I continue to get to enjoy the little lecture about the Japanese writing system: "Well you see, Japanese has three writing systems. There's Hiragana, Katakana, and Kanji. That's why it's so difficult..." Please, no more! Stop it!
Even though I'm resigned to it, I can't help but be insulted. I know it's not intended that way. I know it's just something to get a conversation going along with "Where are you from?", "Can you use chopsticks?", "Do you like natto?", "Why are you here?", and "You won't understand because you're not Japanese." No, wait. That last one is something else entirely.
Well thanks, mezbup, you've succeeded in winding me up by reminding of these things
I love Japan. I love this way of life. And I love most of the people I meet, especially those who accept me as a human being. At least it has taught me to think more carefully about the questions I ask when I meet people for the first time.
White People Can't Read Japanese. - paasan - 2011-08-15
I visited a maid cafe some time ago, and while I was eating, one of the maids there walked past me, waited for some time as she mentally prepared herself before asking me in English 'where are you from?'. I quickly replied, but in Japanese, and the poor girl was all shocked, running around in the room yelling some sentences about ぺらぺら and that I could speak Japanese to the other maids. Quite a show!
This was a bit off topic though.
wccrawford: The japanese really do struggle with this. I've been asked to find "an information" and gods know what else. I suspect they just add something and hope it's correct, probably in the same manner I add random particles and hope for the best.
White People Can't Read Japanese. - wccrawford - 2011-08-15
paasan Wrote:wccrawford: The japanese really do struggle with this. I've been asked to find "an information" and gods know what else. I suspect they just add something and hope it's correct, probably in the same manner I add random particles and hope for the best.Oh, I know they struggle... And most English speakers struggle to explain it. It's something we do automatically, but don't really understand.
I was just surprised to hear her say that English was harder than Japanese. I of course reminded her of all the politeness levels, and how words change between them, and such.
White People Can't Read Japanese. - vileru - 2011-08-15
SendaiDan Wrote:vileru, you live in Sendai? That's awesome - I love SendaiYes, but unfortunately I return to California on the 21st of this month. Fortunately, I'm coming back in January, and will stay for about a year, and possibly longer depending on whether I do my PhD in the U.S., England, or Japan.
White People Can't Read Japanese. - Gingerninja - 2011-08-15
Don't we all get that? Despite me speaking Japanese to my students to explain grammar points when they'd give the wide eyed "lost" look in class. Upon the all mighty revelation that I could infact read katakana, there was a class wide ええええええええええええええ as if i'd figured out cold fusion or something.
White People Can't Read Japanese. - Tori-kun - 2011-08-15
mezbup Wrote:it's like... OMFG... YES FFS! HOW ON EARTH ELSE DO YOU GET ANY GOOD AT A LANGUAGE??????????????????? WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO? JUST NOT BE ABLE TO READ IT CAUSE THE JAPANESE THINK FOREIGNERS CANT DO IT!??????????????? ....This. Is the reason for me learning Japanese. I love their faces, but kinda hate it. They mystify this Asian languages topic =_=
/rant.
White People Can't Read Japanese. - mezbup - 2011-08-15
Haha... yeah. That about sums it up. Even though there are some people on tv showing off their kanji skills I think these people are just presumed to be aliens or robots or something. Not actual people.
I think the thing that kind of bugs me is that 99% of people tend to do it. Thing is if someone is learning English we expect them to be able to read it and write it to a native level because everyone else can (non-natives) and as a result I think people aim high and achieve those goals because they are seen as realistic. Where as in terms of Japanese it's just expected you can't do it so don't even try... sort of thing.
I've still got a ways to go before I can read on par with a native but if someone can speak fluently don't be surprised when they're reading proper full length books too!!!!
On a side note... I think ima start trolling the Japanese til they just kinda get it. Haha not in a dickish way but just... for example I've been asked なんで日本語そんなにうまいの？ about a 1000 times now and I'm over explaining it so I give one stock standard answer. I'm from space. So, I think what Ima do is just tell people I absolutely cannot read Japanese (not even hiragana) and then proceed to read books outloud infront of them and deny that I have any ability to do so when it is commented on the fact that I am indeed reading Japanese.
White People Can't Read Japanese. - Gingerninja - 2011-08-15
^^
As they don't understand sarcasm anyway, just deny you're actually foreign and insist you're Japanese and watch them at a loss for words trying to figure it out.
White People Can't Read Japanese. - fakewookie - 2011-08-15
It's because they're used to gaijin in Japan not knowing the first thing about Japanese and not being able to read or say pretty much anything beyond コンニチハ.
Fun fact: I pretended to be a 19 year old Japanese girl on SharedTalk the other day, just to see what kind of conversations other gaijin have. What I learned is that Japanese people who interact with gaijin must be pretty used to reading horribly incorrect Japanese, being asked "hiragana only please", and English. Because that's all I saw. Gaijin who can read and write Japanese are few and far between.
I don't understand getting angry and being offended though. I just laugh and continue. Why is it something to get upset over?
White People Can't Read Japanese. - Jarvik7 - 2011-08-15
Gingerninja Wrote:^^Except Japanese people generally do understand sarcasm.. Manzai つっこみ is frequently sarcastic.
As they don't understand sarcasm anyway, just deny you're actually foreign and insist you're Japanese and watch them at a loss for words trying to figure it out.
Stereotyping goes both ways.
White People Can't Read Japanese. - zer0range - 2011-08-15
I speak Chinese and I get the same thing when I talk to people on skype sometimes, although it seems to happen more often to Japanese learners. No, I don't need you to type pinyin...
White People Can't Read Japanese. - GreenAirth - 2011-08-15
fakewookie Wrote:I don't understand getting angry and being offended though. I just laugh and continue. Why is it something to get upset over?Most of the time, I can let it slip right over me, but it's not a choice. You just get certain days when it winds you up however much you understand on a rational level it's nothing to get upset about.
It's a bit like how Hugh Laurie must be sick and tired answering questions about how he manages to do an American accent. Regardless of whether he's any good or not, he's an actor.
There are some days when I'm sick and tired of answering the same stock questions. Regardless of whether I'm any good or not, I'm living in Japan.
I'd much rather be embarrassed by people asking me, "Can't you read that? What's the matter with you?"
White People Can't Read Japanese. - yudantaiteki - 2011-08-15
fakewookie Wrote:I don't understand getting angry and being offended though. I just laugh and continue. Why is it something to get upset over?I didn't get angry or offended normally, but when people who I had been working with for 2 years were still doing "OMG YOU CAN READ HIRAGANA" it got tiresome.
I pretty much agree with GreenAirth's posts.
White People Can't Read Japanese. - bcrAn - 2011-08-15
@mezbup
I am from space is fun but also kind of folly; going in depth about how you acquired the language is pointless in most normal contexts and will take quite some time to explain. Instead I would attempt to convince them that learning Japanese was in fact remarkably easy.
Tbh, I think is more probable that Japanese people are simply trying to be polite and just say something rather than mock you. Also, they ignore that you are not the typical foreigner commonly portrayed in their media.
You said it yourself, is about expectations, English speakers expect English learners to achieve a very high level of fluency whereas Japanese speakers are rather indulgent towards Japanese learners, specially if they are not Asian.
White People Can't Read Japanese. - SendaiDan - 2011-08-15
Gingerninja Wrote:^^Last year when I was living in Japan I was introduced to a Japanese friend of one of my friends who was also an international stuent, we did this. My friend said I was ハーフ and that my father was Japanese. Now you can tell just by looking at me that there is no way it could be true, not to mention my lacking speaking ability at that time too. Anyway we had her going for about 10 minutes until I couldn't take it anymore and told her the truth.
As they don't understand sarcasm anyway, just deny you're actually foreign and insist you're Japanese and watch them at a loss for words trying to figure it out.
White People Can't Read Japanese. - Gingerninja - 2011-08-15
Jarvik7 Wrote:Then it's sarcasm in the form western people use it they don't understand. Denying you've had your hair cut when you clearly have, will leave them baffled. I have done this and seen it done by many an exchange student, mostly to combat the relentless asking if you've had your hair cut, for our own amusement and the utter bewilderment on their faces.Gingerninja Wrote:^^Except Japanese people generally do understand sarcasm.. Manzai つっこみ is frequently sarcastic.
As they don't understand sarcasm anyway, just deny you're actually foreign and insist you're Japanese and watch them at a loss for words trying to figure it out.
Stereotyping goes both ways.
髪切った？ ううん えええええええ！
White People Can't Read Japanese. - Jarvik7 - 2011-08-15
Maybe you're not good at being sarcastic
(or recognizing the way Japanese respond to it)I've used and had success with claiming to be Japanese, saying I never cut my hair, that I forgot something because Doraemon hit me over the head and mugged me (I had a 20 minute conversation continually adding to this story and the other person doing つっこみ), and other obvious lies.
Of course, some people have no sarcasm meter but that is the same in any country.
White People Can't Read Japanese. - vileru - 2011-08-15
Gingerninja Wrote:Is it possible that they understood, but just said「ええ～」out of politeness? While the more sincere may say 「うそ！」I wouldn't be suprised if many Japandse say「ええ～」simply to avoid accusing you of being a liar. Also, note that「ええ～」often has the same meaning as 「本当に？」Jarvik7 Wrote:Then it's sarcasm in the form western people use it they don't understand. Denying you've had your hair cut when you clearly have, will leave them baffled. I have done this and seen it done by many an exchange student, mostly to combat the relentless asking if you've had your hair cut, for our own amusement and the utter bewilderment on their faces.Gingerninja Wrote:^^Except Japanese people generally do understand sarcasm.. Manzai つっこみ is frequently sarcastic.
As they don't understand sarcasm anyway, just deny you're actually foreign and insist you're Japanese and watch them at a loss for words trying to figure it out.
Stereotyping goes both ways.
髪切った？ ううん えええええええ！