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+--- Thread: やつ (/thread-813.html)
やつ - shaydwyrm - 2007-09-20
Can anyone help me out as to how やつ is used in everyday conversation? People seem to use it as an informal substitute for もの or something similar, but the dictionaries say it's vulgar, so I don't want to start using it indiscriminately. Is it related at all to こいつ etc?
やつ - JimmySeal - 2007-09-20
By "vulgar" I think your dictionary is referring to definition 6 on this page and a bit of 3, but not really 2:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=vulgar
I have found people to react to the word as though it were a bit 下品 but generally it shouldn't be much of a problem. Just slip it into conversations and gauge people's reactions.
Note: it will probably offend if you use it to refer to people rather than things.
やつ - dilandau23 - 2007-09-20
I read this some time ago.
やつ - shaydwyrm - 2007-09-20
That was an excellent article. I haven't seen that blog before, but it looks quite interesting! Thanks for your replies. I'll come back and let you know if I choke spectacularly.
やつ - wrightak - 2007-09-21
I think there is a similarity to こいつ、そいつ and あいつ in that none of them should be used in polite conversation. If you say あいつ instead of あの人 then you're probably expressing that you don't have a high opinion of that person eg. 「あいつは大嫌い」 "I hate him" (maybe a girl saying this after being dumped, or cheated on). Alternatively, I've also heard the three of them used in banter among men when drinking or on TV in comedy shows. eg. when talking about the friend sitting next to you at a 飲み会, 「こいつはね、ぜんぜん飲めない」 "This guy here, he can't drink".
Basically I wouldn't use any of these words when speaking in です・ます form (i.e. people older than you, anyone outside your group etc.). If you're speaking in plain form then やつ should be fine, especially for objects, but I'd still be careful when referring to people.
I definitely try to observe the circumstances that I hear words in as closely as I can. Mainly because of all the cock ups I make. Learning the appropriacy of words/phrases/grammar is something that's much trickier in Japanese than it is in other languages.
やつ - PrettyKitty - 2007-09-21
Can't it also be used for こと？
やつ - wrightak - 2007-09-21
Quote:Can't it also be used for こと？I don't think so. こと is used to nominalise verbs or phrases. It's not a noun itself whereas やつ is. Here are some examples where こと definitely couldn't be replaced by やつ. If you can think of any examples where it might be then let me know.
詳しいことは、説明書をご参照ください。 For the details, please consult the manual.
泳ぐことができません。 I can't swim. (or more literally, "The swimming thing, I can't do it.")
泳ぐことは難しいです。 Swimming is difficult.
In the examples above, こと serves to turn what's before it into a noun. So "detailed" (adj.) becomes "the details". The verb "to swim" becomes the noun "swimming".
やつ - PrettyKitty - 2007-09-21
Yeah, it wouldn't work in those. I think I'm thinking more along the lines of ということ but now I'm thinking that would probably fall under というもの instead.
やつ - wrightak - 2007-09-21
もの could be interchanged with やつ but neither of them can be swapped for こと (without changing the meaning). ということ and というもの are different. もの represents something physical and concrete but こと doesn't.
やつ - PrettyKitty - 2007-09-21
Yeah. You're right. I was thinking of もの. I know the difference in ということ and というもの. I think I was just having a brain fart.
I don't think of もの as always being something physical and concrete though.
For example:
どんなこともお金で解決できる、というものではありません。
To me, that one is abstract. I guess it depends on how you look at it.
やつ - wrightak - 2007-09-22
You're right, もの isn't always something physical. There are a lot of grammar points in the JLPT which demonstrate this and it does come up in conversation. eg.
I read something along these lines in the book I'm reading:
「ときどき夜に散歩するのは好きです」
「そうですね。静かですもんね」
The ですもの grammar structure comes up quite a lot in conversation. However, I may be wrong but I interpret this use of もの, and other uses of it, as an attempt by the speaker to strengthen what they're saying and actually make it into something physical. Or at least demonstrate that it has some physicality to them. Maybe I'm taking things too far here though.