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Weird Kana - mottles - 2011-06-28
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/rose.jpg
Hi guys,
Starting with 〆, what do the characters mean? In other words, are the last six entries (shime, koto, toki, tomo, yori, sourou) on this list abbreviations of kanji or something?
Thanks.
Weird Kana - yudantaiteki - 2011-06-28
〆 you still see; it's used to represent 締め切り (deadline).
The others are not used in modern Japanese; I'm not sure what they're abbreviations of. I've seen them in Meiji-era publications (particularly the ones for こと and とき) but never in modern.
Weird Kana - arch9443 - 2011-06-28
yudantaiteki Wrote:〆 you still see; it's used to represent 締め切り (deadline).how common is that? I've never seen 〆切 before using 〆, but I don't live on Japan.
The others are not used in modern Japanese; I'm not sure what they're abbreviations of. I've seen them in Meiji-era publications (particularly the ones for こと and とき) but never in modern.
And is there any actual rule with words like that whether you should leave the kana there or not? i.e. 締め切り vs 締切 vs 締切り. I see the kana is left there quite often, but not always.
Weird Kana - bertoni - 2011-06-28
There's an official Monbushou way to using the verb okurigana that's taught in schools, but it changes from time to time, so people use a variety of methods for that. It's fairly free form, in general.
There are a lot of forms for writing phonetically in Japanese, but most of them seem to be used only in shodo or the like these days.
Weird Kana - Ryuujin27 - 2011-06-28
mottles Wrote:http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/rose.jpgParticles.
Hi guys,
Starting with 〆, what do the characters mean? In other words, are the last six entries (shime, koto, toki, tomo, yori, sourou) on this list abbreviations of kanji or something?
Thanks.
Weird Kana - JimmySeal - 2011-06-29
〆 is quite common for spelling the word 締め切り (thouth I think I've only seen it written 〆め切り, or maybe just 〆切り, not 〆切). It's also used on the flaps of important envelopes, to ensure they aren't opened and resealed.
㐧 in place of 第 is another one you see a lot on signs and whatnot.
sourou (候ふ) is a helping verb that was used in classical Japanese, but hardly ever now:
http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2/129639/m0u/%E3%81%9D%E3%81%86%E3%82%8D%E3%81%86/
Weird Kana - mottles - 2011-07-02
So, in other words, you're saying that コト、トキ、ヨリ、トモ are just the common words I expect them to be, just written in a strange way?
Could someone who knows calligraphy explain where these abbreviations come from (i.e., what kanji)? Or give an example of them being used somewhere so I can see context?
Thanks.
Weird Kana - kitakitsune - 2011-07-02
That'll be hard to find considering these symbols haven't been used in over 150 years.
They may not be universally recognized across Edo era Japan too. Each province in Japan used slightly different kana. It wasn't standardized until Meiji.
Weird Kana - JimmySeal - 2011-07-02
I've never seen those abbreviations before, but koto, toki, and tomo look like と, キ and モ with an extra line added. Soro looks like it might be an abbreviation of 候.
Weird Kana - bertoni - 2011-07-02
There are large dictionaries of old forms for phonetic writing. You can look them up on amazon.co.jp. Some or most of them give the origins. I have one, but it's not at hand. Knowing the kanji doesn't necessarily help much, though. The old forms can be very hard to read.