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Kanji in Context - Aikiboy - 2007-09-18
Hi, I just finished RTK 1, yeah for me, and was considering using Kanji in Context in conjunction with RTK 2 since a lot of people here seem to recommend it. I've found the reference book and workbook 2 in town, but the local book stores say that workbook 1 supplies are out. I tried the Japanese Amazon and there are 2 listed being sold for around 7000 yen, when workbook 2 sells for 1500 yen. Pirates.
Is the book worth it? Know where I can get a copy? Are the workbooks necessary? Any other contextual books worthy of interest?
Thanks in advance.
Should have mentioned that I'm in Kyushu, Japan.
Kanji in Context - Thora - 2007-09-18
Hi Aikiboy. I have an extra copy of Workbook #1. If you email me your address, I'll mail it to you. I'm in Vancouver, it shouldn't take too long.
I highly recommend KIC for people who have some understanding of basic grammar and vocab (low intermediate perhaps?).
Kanji in Context - Thora - 2007-09-18
I suppose I should try to answer your questions first: Yes, the workbooks are essential. The reference book is just that: it lists the kanji in order of 'usefulness' and lists a selection of vocab for each kanji that they felt is most useful for an adult learner of Japanese. The workbooks provide the context: using the vocab in sentences and some short phrases to highlight use of particles, idioms, antonyms, etc. As it is all written in Japanese, it assumes the user has completed beginner level Japanese (grammar, vocal and 200 kanji I believe)
Workbook #1 covers Parts 1 to 3 (up to 1200 kanji). Why don't you start with that and pick up Workbook #2 later if you like the approach.
Y7000 seems a bit out of line. fyi the price in Japan for Workbook 1 is Y2200. I'd be happy to give you my extra one.
Kanji in Context - suffah - 2007-09-18
Very nice of you Thora!
The workbooks are absolutely critical, otherwise you'd basically be memorizing a dictionary (without example sentences, etc). I bought both workbooks together a while ago, I think you'll discover that it'll take you a while to get through workbook 1. Close to ~100 lessons at 20-30 sentences per lesson.
Kanji in Context - Aikiboy - 2007-09-18
Thanks Thora, it is super nice of you! I've sent you my details. Yoroshiku, ne!
Suffah, actually, when I thumbed through the reference book, I thought just that. That it looked like a dictionary and I didn't see how the "in context" part came about until I peeked into workbook 2. So, I was torn between getting it because of the rare to find workbook 1. Thanks for the input!
Kanji in Context - shaydwyrm - 2007-09-19
For other people that are in Japan and looking for these books: I searched all the bookstores near me and none carry it. I eventually found, however, that they are all still available (including workbook 1) from Bonjinsha (http://www.bonjinsha.com/), either in person at one of their stores or by mail order. I'm going to try to pick up a set this weekend.
Kanji in Context - Aikiboy - 2007-09-22
Hey Shadwyrm, thanks for the info. I took a look at bonjinsha but didn't see where it showed stock. The pics said "now printing". Perhaps you called and checked? At any rate, Thora has graciously agreed to send me her spare copy and I've since bought the reference book and workbook 2.
Good luck in your studies!
Kanji in Context - shaydwyrm - 2007-09-23
Yeah, I called and checked :-) The site does say now printing, but the old editions are still in stock. I got my copies yesterday...it's going to be a long process from here though!
Kanji in Context - Aikiboy - 2007-09-23
Well, just think, it was longer before RTK and whatever studying you do it gets shorter and shorter! Half empty/half full. I was looking at kanji kentei books today. Level 5 seems to test 6 years of elementary school kanji. Thinking of picking one up, but my collection of new books is growing a little too fast. I'll probably wait a while, but they do look like like a good way to study. Good luck with the KIC set!
Kanji in Context - shaydwyrm - 2007-09-23
Aikiboy Wrote:...my collection of new books is growing a little too fast.I hear you there. Recently, I've realized that a lot of the time that I spend looking for good ways to study Japanese would be better spent actually studying!
Kanji in Context - narafan - 2007-09-23
shaydwyrm Wrote:.... I can attest to thisAikiboy Wrote:...my collection of new books is growing a little too fast.I hear you there. Recently, I've realized that a lot of the time that I spend looking for good ways to study Japanese would be better spent actually studying!
Kanji in Context - Jarvik7 - 2007-09-23
Aikiboy Wrote:Well, just think, it was longer before RTK and whatever studying you do it gets shorter and shorter! Half empty/half full. I was looking at kanji kentei books today. Level 5 seems to test 6 years of elementary school kanji. Thinking of picking one up, but my collection of new books is growing a little too fast. I'll probably wait a while, but they do look like like a good way to study. Good luck with the KIC set!You should get practice books from the easiest level. You might know the kanji from the harder levels levels, but there is surrounding information you probably don't know (some of my native Japanese friends missed some questions in my kanken7級 book). You shouldn't take all the tests starting from the easiest, but you should at least go through the books (they are cheap enough).
Kanji in Context - Aikiboy - 2007-09-30
That's good advice Jarvik7. Always best to be thorough!
Shaydwyrm, thanks for the tip on Bojinsha. I wound up ordering workbook1 by phone. (No fault of Thora's, just not practical. They seemed really surprised that it's so hard to come by at other stores. Should be here this week sometime. Yeah!
Kanji in Context - Nukemarine - 2007-11-13
I just got all three yesterday. Haven't flipped through it much yet. I am noticing a severe lack of furigana on many of the kanji. Not a good thing, but maybe not relevant if I do Genki I and II first.
For now, I'm stepping back a bit as I was doing too much at once. I need to focus on just RevTK and Pimsleur for now. However, Kanji in Context is now there for me.
Kanji in Context - TGWeaver - 2007-11-13
Nukemarine Wrote:I just got all three yesterday. Haven't flipped through it much yet. I am noticing a severe lack of furigana on many of the kanji. Not a good thing, but maybe not relevant if I do Genki I and II first.ummm, Kanji in Context is a 中級 book (that wonderful world for people between 350 and 1200 or so kanji). It's not meant for people that haven't taken a beginners course (like Genki I & 2).
For now, I'm stepping back a bit as I was doing too much at once. I need to focus on just RevTK and Pimsleur for now. However, Kanji in Context is now there for me.
Also, if I were you I would hold back on RevTK for now and just do the Pimsleur and Genki books. RevTK is great, but it takes a LONG time and you don't gain anything functional from it. RevTK has it's merits, but it's really not the first thing you should be studying.
Kanji in Context - billyclyde - 2007-11-14
TGWeaver, I agree that the sentences KIC shouldn't be tackled without at least some grammar, as some constructions will give a beginner a headache. Disagree about RevTK, though-- Pimsleur will aid communicative competence, and RTK helps open up the world around; wish I'd done it first.
Kanji in Context - PParisi - 2007-11-14
TGWeaver Wrote:Also, if I were you I would hold back on RevTK for now and just do the Pimsleur and Genki books. RevTK is great, but it takes a LONG time and you don't gain anything functional from it. RevTK has it's merits, but it's really not the first thing you should be studying.This is a sensible statement. James Heisig, in his introduction, writes that he worked through and completed "a basic introductory grammar" in his first four weeks of Japanese study. Only then did he start work on the kanji.
Of course, he goes on to note that the introductory grammar work gave him a basic understanding of how Japanese works but little ability to use the language.
It seems to me that if you are in Japan now you would want to be able to communicate on a basic level (eg. buying those excellent canned coffee-drinks at the konbini or asking a policeman directions at the koban) before anything else. A good goal would be finishing a basic grammar (take your time: six months is not unrealistic) and passing level four of the JLPT (if you're the sort who likes taking tests: I am). This course of action doesn't produce fluency but it gives a solid understanding of the way the language works and a measure of confidence in living day-to-day in a foriegn country. It is unfortunate that expatriates who have lived in Japan for years can't claim to have mastered the language to this rudimentary extent. I don't know how they live. (On the other hand, my grandparents--immigrants to the U.S. from Italy--never learned English either and it didn't seem to bother them.)
Kanji in Context - sutebun - 2007-11-14
Can anyone explain how the workbooks function exactly? These sound interesting and I might want to pick up copies of the two work books, but would like to know more about them.
Also, I looked at the reference book and was curious, for someone who has completed RtK and will have a good dictionary on hand, would the reference book even be necessary? It looks rather pointless if one already knows how to write all the kanji and can easily look them up on a dictionary for definitions/readings if needed.
Kanji in Context - billyclyde - 2007-11-14
The two workbooks are the course, with 143 lessons between them. Each lesson is three parts, with example sentences last and the first two showcasing common words, expressions, and groups of words.
For instance, Lesson 7 features the kanji 世。 Part I has the phrase:
（人）のお世話をする
which reads せわ。
Part two has 中世の歴史、or ちゅうせいのれきし next to 中世の大学。
Part III has 世の中のには善人もいれば悪人もいる。 and next to it the reading よのなか。
There are no sentence translations , but I can say that most or all the vocabulary is in in the reference book. I have had trouble with understanding a sentence now and then. Even if you don't have much grammar, the pairs and baisic expressions are very useful.
Without the workbooks, I find the reference book worthless. It's just a big list of kanji and readings, many of which are quite obscure. But the workbooks don't go too well without the reference book-- you could theoretically just look up every reading, but for twenty bucks you can cut that labor by more than tenfold. Also, since one purpose of the course is to learn the highly contextual readings, you wont accidentally learn something the wrong way.
Kanji in Context - billyclyde - 2007-11-14
And the title "workbooks" is kind of misleading, because they're just lists of sentences and phrases with words underlined you're supposed to know the reading for.
And just to sound a minority opinion again ^_^ I think Pimsleur covers enough grammar for basic daily communication-- I think you can do well enough without the complications of grammmar-translation textbooks until later. I had to unlearn textbook learning once I moved to Japan, and I feel I would have learned faster just by immersed listening.
Kanji in Context - Jarvik7 - 2007-11-14
It covers enough for daily conversation, if you are alright with having incredibly unnatural and sometimes creepy conversations
Kanji in Context - Aikiboy - 2007-11-14
After having picked up the books, a friend of mine liked the structure of the workbooks but refused to buy the reference book. He's happy with that. I think he loses a bit, but I can understand his not wanting to get ANOTHER kanji reference book.
I go through one chapter of the reference book, noting all words I don't know or am still kind of shakey on. Then I practice those for a bit, through writing and inputting into a vocab file on the pc. When I feel comfortable, I hit the workbook and try to read everything listed without having to look up readings and words. When I can understand and write everything in the workbook for a chapter, I enter the vocab for that chapter into a flashcard program. I use Anki.
I like the idea that I can review any chapter at all just by reading the sentences. It's not like real reading, but it is reading that by design goes hand in hand with my reading level. I think it's smart.
Kanji in Context - billyclyde - 2007-11-15
Yeah, I wasn't creepy at all after Yokoso! book 1. ^_^;
Kanji in Context - Aikiboy - 2007-11-27
I've been slowly plugging in vocab from KIC and finally did a search for a download. I came up with only an on-line reviewing site which is nice, but not what I want.
Then I thought that since there is a list of frequently used kanji, wouldn't a list of frequent vocabulary be better? I searched a bit and found a 22,000 word list of most frequent words from newspapers,etc. Crossreferencing all Kanji in Context kanji with occurrences in the 22,000 list yields over 33,000 hits(with repeats, of course). Thinking of how to slim that down to the words I need just hurts my head.
I certainly don't want to edit a file that big so I tried scanning the list from the back of the book(alphabetical, word plus kanji where it was introduced in the book). I scanned 12 pages last night, I think, about 50 left to go. Tedious. And there will be errors.
Does anyone have a digital list of the VOCAB from Kanji in Context? It'd save me oodles of time.
Yoroshiku.