kanji koohii FORUM
Usage of ~ず and ~なくて - Printable Version

+- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com)
+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: The Japanese language (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-10.html)
+--- Thread: Usage of ~ず and ~なくて (/thread-7906.html)

Usage of ~ず and ~なくて - Rayath - 2011-07-13

So I always thought that verb endings ~ず and ~なくて can be used interchangeably in sentences like "do something without doing something (else)", but recently I was corrected when trying to use ~なくて form in a sentence like that. So can someone explain the difference between these two and when exactly one or the other can be used?

Usage of ~ず and ~なくて - yudantaiteki - 2011-07-13

It's ~ずに and ~ないで.

The difference between ないで and なくて is a little tough, but なくて doesn't have the "without" connotation, it's just "and".)

(And ず by itself is just equivalent to normal negative ない, you need the に to make it mean "without".)

Usage of ~ず and ~なくて - Javizy - 2011-07-13

There is a subtle difference, as elucidated in ADBJG. In fact, I think they aren't interchangeable in one or more contexts. Think I need to review that entry...

Edit: that's about ないで too.

Usage of ~ず and ~なくて - Rayath - 2011-07-13

yudantaiteki Wrote:It's ~ずに and ~ないで.

The difference between ないで and なくて is a little tough, but なくて doesn't have the "without" connotation, it's just "and".)

(And ず by itself is just equivalent to normal negative ない, you need the に to make it mean "without".)
Thanks for your answer yudantaiteki! Yeah, I've mixed it up quite a bit.
So basically, ~ずに and ~ないで are interchangeable, right?
And can you give me a example sentence where you would use なくて? (it can even be in English, I just don't seem to understand that form and want to see how it’s used).


Javizy Wrote:There is a subtle difference, as elucidated in ADBJG. In fact, I think they aren't interchangeable in one or more contexts. Think I need to review that entry...

Edit: that's about ないで too.
Do you know on which page is it?

Usage of ~ず and ~なくて - yudantaiteki - 2011-07-13

Rayath Wrote:Thanks for your answer yudantaiteki! Yeah, I've mixed it up quite a bit.
So basically, ~ずに and ~ないで are interchangeable, right?
Yes, with one exception. Only ないで can be used in the "Don't do X" form -- i.e. 食べないでください (Don't eat that).

Quote:And can you give me a example sentence where you would use なくて? (it can even be in English, I just don't seem to understand that form and want to see how it’s used).
行かなくていい。
It's OK if you don't go.
これはゲームじゃなくて、電子辞書だ。
This isn't a game, it's an electronic dictionary.

It shows up most often in the なくても structure, meaning "If not X", i.e.:
辞書を使わなくても読める。
I can read this even if I don't use a dictionary.
説明しなくても分かる。
He understands even if there's no explanation.

Usage of ~ず and ~なくて - Rayath - 2011-07-13

Now it starts to make sense. Thanks again! Smile

Usage of ~ず and ~なくて - kainzero - 2011-07-13

my teacher told me that ずに is more of a written/poetic phrase, but i keep hearing it so i'm not sure

Usage of ~ず and ~なくて - yudantaiteki - 2011-07-13

I don't think that's true. ず by itself is archaic/written, but ずに is used in casual speech.