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harry potter - fingerscrossed - 2007-09-11
i'm hopefully going to be finishing with RTK and moving to sentences in a couple weeks and i was curious how possible it would be to take sentences from harry potter? it is, for the most part, the simplest book i have in japanese that i am really looking forward to delving into. i have other books that i intend to get most of my sentences from but i was thinking about trying to add a few every day from harry potter.
if it seems like a reasonable place to get some sentences, what would be the best way to go about getting the translations. do people generally get definitions word by word and then use those to get a general idea as to the sentences meaning? any input would be greatly appreciated. thanks
harry potter - CharleyGarrett - 2007-09-12
Here's what I do. Please comment if you see that I'm doing anything in a way that has a more efficient approach.
I'm sitting here reading the Japanese translation (I have the English version nearby, just in case), and I have JWPce open, with the dictionary window and the radical lookup window. I come across a kanji that I don't know the reading (but because of familiarity with the story, and RTK keywords, I know the meaning of the word). To get the reading, sometimes I can guess, so I put that in the dictionary, and that checks pretty fast if I got the reading right. At last resort, I find the kanji using the radicals, inserting them into the dictionary window from that tool using the "insert in file" button.
There are also times when there is furigana, but I don't recall any RTK keywords, and I'm not sure I remember exactly what is going on in the story. I put those in the dictionary, just to look up the meaning.
OK, so then I come across a sentence that I might want to keep for SRS. An example that I chose was Dumbledore saying that he'd trust Hagrid with his life. That seemed like an interesting phrase to me. So, then I type it into the document window.
Next I cut and paste it into Word. Using Word's "format/asian text/pronunciation guide" Word will supply the furigana for me, which I can print or cut and paste. So, I have one copy without furigana (the question), and one copy with furigana (the answer). Then, if I need it, I may have a J-J dictionary explanation of some word or another, amplifying the answer. I usually get those online at http://www.sanseido.net.
harry potter - fingerscrossed - 2007-09-12
ok, i see. do you think it would be possible for someone who is a complete beginner to break apart the sentences to look up? or would this end up being too difficult/time consuming? thanks for the reply and i like your method.
harry potter - wrightak - 2007-09-12
I think that a lot depends on how advanced your grammar knowledge is. If you're a complete beginner then I think you may find it difficult and time consuming because of this. You can give it a go but I think you'll find out whether your grammar is up to it or not fairly quickly.
Harry Potter may be described as a children's book but I think it's designed for teenagers rather than young children. I found books targetted at 8 year olds were better for learning purposes. Also, some sentences which are very simply expressed in English may be difficult to translate into Japanese. In these situations, the translator may choose either to select a phrase that is quite different in meaning but appropriate in the context, or they could try a more exact translation that uses more complicated/obscure/slightly less natural language. Charley would be best placed to comment on this though since I haven't read the Japanese version of Harry Potter.
However, I do remember seeing some English words that were converted into katakana and then assigned kanji. The kanji are printed in the text and an katakana-ized English word is put in furigana next to it. I find this very interesting and I wonder what they do when translating English novels into Chinese. Does the meaning or pronunciation of the hanzi take priority?
harry potter - brose - 2007-09-12
In my view, instead of spending all of that time cutting/pasting and studying, just spend the extra time reading. If you have read the English a couple of times, you should more or less be able to follow the story. However, keep in mind that Harry Potter is by no means an easy book. It has loads of non-RTK kanji, and a lot of complicated sentence structures.
harry potter - JimmySeal - 2007-09-12
Brose said pretty much what I was going to say.
I think you'll find reading Harry Potter with a dictionary to be tedious and frustrating, but reading it without a dictionary can be fun and exciting. People are far more capable of doing this than they realize. You can use your knowledge of the story and what you know of some of the words to figure out what the unknown words mean, and the more you do it, the smaller the gaps will get.
For kanji I can't pronounce, what I do is keep a list in front of me on a piece of paper. When I encounter a word or compound twice, I write it down on the list, and then when I have about 20 new words on the list, I look up their readings in JWPce or dictionary.goo.ne.jp. Then I put that information into an SRS as kanji->kana cards.
harry potter - sheetz - 2007-09-12
You can also try reading along with the Harry Potter Japanese audiobooks, which are available for the first two volumes. The Japanese audiobook for the first volume is available on Demonoid.
harry potter - watashimo - 2007-09-12
I just found the audiobooks for Harry Potter I and II on demonoid. Now I just have to get the Japanese edition of Harry Potter. Thanks.
harry potter - sheetz - 2007-09-12
Woohoo! The second volume was uploaded yesterday so I didn't know about it. Thanks for the heads up! I don't know where to download the books, but you can get them both from Yesasia.com for like US$25 altogether.
harry potter - CharleyGarrett - 2007-09-12
How does one get an invitation to register for demonoid?
harry potter - sheetz - 2007-09-12
I'd give you an invite if I had one, but I just joined recently and don't have any yet. Maybe someone else here has one.
harry potter - Mcjon01 - 2007-09-12
watashimo Wrote:I just found the audiobooks for Harry Potter I and II on demonoid. Now I just have to get the Japanese edition of Harry Potter. Thanks.Funny. I just found the same things on Share. Now I just need to finish Heisig and learn enough Japanese to make my way through the books.
harry potter - sheetz - 2007-09-12
I've also compiled a list of free audio sources for a number of Japanese books and short stories along with their transcripts and translations. Mostly older Japanese authors like Natsume, Akutagawa, Miyazawa, Dazai, etc. in addition to some Western works like fairy tales, The Little Prince and Sherlock Holmes mysteries. If anyone is interested I can start a new thread.
harry potter - fingerscrossed - 2007-09-12
ok, i think i'll save it for after i have some grammar under my belt but will browse through it occasionally for reading practice and to see how much i recognize. reading along with the audio book sounds interesting too. if anyone has an invite to demonoid it would be greatly appreciated.
harry potter - narafan - 2007-09-12
sheetz, that would be cool with the transcripts
harry potter - skylarth - 2007-09-12
sheetz Wrote:I've also compiled a list of free audio sources for a number of Japanese books and short stories along with their transcripts and translations. Mostly older Japanese authors like Natsume, Akutagawa, Miyazawa, Dazai, etc. in addition to some Western works like fairy tales, The Little Prince and Sherlock Holmes mysteries. If anyone is interested I can start a new thread.along this line, there is a really great forum post here: http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=6241&PN=1 that has a TON of books.
EDIT: i just realized that they were both by sheetz. so, go for the posting man. the list is great!
harry potter - sheetz - 2007-09-12
LOL! Yeah, that's me. I'll start another thread.
harry potter - Megaqwerty - 2007-09-12
watashimo Wrote:Now I just have to get the Japanese edition of Harry Potter.Such irony that Demonoid has the Romanian version of Harry Potter, but not the Japanese one...
harry potter - Mcjon01 - 2007-09-12
Megaqwerty Wrote:Mmm, but the printed version is so much prettier anyway. I got mine from the Sasuga Japanese Bookstore, so that I wouldn't have to pay ridiculous shipping rates from Japan.watashimo Wrote:Now I just have to get the Japanese edition of Harry Potter.Such irony that Demonoid has the Romanian version of Harry Potter, but not the Japanese one...
harry potter - meolox - 2007-09-13
Sorry to differ from the discussion, but do you think ~JLPT3 Grammar Knowledge is sufficient enough to get through Harry Potter nihongo edition?
EDIT: With dictionary help of course for unkown vocab
harry potter - sheetz - 2007-09-13
meolox Wrote:Sorry to differ from the discussion, but do you think ~JLPT3 Grammar Knowledge is sufficient enough to get through Harry Potter nihongo edition?If the translation is close to the original then I think you could just work your way through the Japanese one with the English copy on hand to consult when necessary.
Can anyone who's read both the original and translation comment on how close they are to one another?
harry potter - JimmySeal - 2007-09-13
JLPT3 isn't enough to read Harry Potter with a dictionary in hand, but it is enough to read it without a dictionary.
harry potter - skylarth - 2007-09-14
JimmySeal Wrote:JLPT3 isn't enough to read Harry Potter with a dictionary in hand, but it is enough to read it without a dictionary.by that do you mean that you wont be able to understand the things that you will have to look up anyways without the proper grammar? :/
harry potter - JimmySeal - 2007-09-14
No, I mean that the vocabulary level is high enough that if you stop to look up the words you don't know, you'll be looking up 3-4 words in every line and will soon give up from frustration.
But if you are willing to keep an open mind and accept that you won't understand everything right away, you can read through the book and try to guess at what the words mean instead of looking them up, and the more you do this, the more you will guess right and you will understand larger chunks of words at a time. This is especially true if you are already familiar with the story.
harry potter - meolox - 2007-09-14
I'll give it a try, that is after i finish RTK which won't be for a few months, guess I'll order it now anyway from sasugabooks.