Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.?

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - Printable Version

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Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - damicore - 2011-05-25

被爆人 is a compund and a suffix, it seems like a complete different story to me.
I'm probably many years away from you in japanese, so arguing about the existence of such compunds (which i would still not call words) is almost pointless. There is obviously something I'm not understanding about the philosophy of japanese and it's certainly starting to scare me.
So someone might write something like this: 我先日被事故古青車? or even this: 古青車?

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - yudantaiteki - 2011-05-25

I can't see that compound actually occurring, no. You can't really just make up new words unless you're intentionally trying to look strange (or you're making a word for something that didn't exist before).

新車 is an accepted, standard word. 古青車 is not.

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - Jarvik7 - 2011-05-25

Of course my example is not an accepted word, but compounding allows it and it is understandable. It is just far too specific to become fossilized. If there was some big news item that involved old blue cars it could definitely be used though.

古青車連続殺人犯？

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - damicore - 2011-05-25

Even if that was the case I doubt they would pronnounce it こせいしゃ hahaha.

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - yudantaiteki - 2011-05-25

It would be read as こせいしゃ but that would never be used in speech. (I'm still not sure I'm entirely convinced that word would occur; in my experience kanji compounding is not that free, even in news stories.)

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - dizmox - 2011-05-25

zigmonty Wrote:Words like 前回取得補正後電気角 are everywhere.

What does that mean?

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - zigmonty - 2011-05-25

damicore Wrote:被爆人 is a compund and a suffix, it seems like a complete different story to me.
I'm probably many years away from you in japanese, so arguing about the existence of such compunds (which i would still not call words) is almost pointless. There is obviously something I'm not understanding about the philosophy of japanese and it's certainly starting to scare me.
So someone might write something like this: 我先日被事故古青車? or even this: 古青車?

There's nothing scary about it. People don't just coin words randomly and use them in conversation.

Coining a word when giving something a name is entirely appropriate, like Jarvik7's example of 古青車連続殺人犯 for a topic that is expected to crop up repeatedly in many news articles over the coming days/weeks. It'd probably start out being referred to as 青い車を運転している連続殺人犯 in the first few stories. Then, as the audience starts being more familiar with the topic, it'd possibly contract to 青車連続殺人犯.

This is not hugely different to words in english like Unabomber.

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - zigmonty - 2011-05-25

dizmox Wrote:
zigmonty Wrote:Words like 前回取得補正後電気角 are everywhere.
What does that mean?

Corrected electric angle acquired last time. Yeah, welcome to my world lol.

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - dizmox - 2011-05-25

I think I'll pass on adding that to my SRS then >_>

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - zigmonty - 2011-05-25

dizmox Wrote:I think I'll pass on adding that to my SRS then >_>

Likewise, although 前回, 取得, 補正, ~後, 電気, 角度, 電気角 and 補正後 are in mine.

The last two are possibly redundant (as they're straightforward applications of a suffix), but i find learning prefixes/suffixes through a few example compounds is easier than SRSing the suffix alone.

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - Jarvik7 - 2011-05-25

Related:
http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1110621081

http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1133570151

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - jimbojones99 - 2011-05-25

Lots of interesting examples so far, mostly around compound nouns - I find the profusion of suru verbs more infuriating. I actually laughed aloud the first time I read 渡米する.

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - damicore - 2011-05-26

This thread kind of turns me down Sad

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - zigmonty - 2011-05-26

jimbojones99 Wrote:Lots of interesting examples so far, mostly around compound nouns - I find the profusion of suru verbs more infuriating. I actually laughed aloud the first time I read 渡米する.

Took ages before i stopped mistaking 来日 for a word meaning "tomorrow" along the pattern of 来月 and 来年.

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - aphasiac - 2011-05-26

These words pop up all the time in Japanese, and yes you do have to memorise them as new words, but it's not hard as you'll usually already know the components - therefore you get these words for "free".

So an easy example, you'll know 青（あお）is blue and 空（そら) is sky, so it's just a matter of remembering 青空 is pronounced slightly differently -but it's easy to remember.

This is not unique to Japanese, it happens all the time in English - certain adjectives only fit with certain nouns. For example, if I want some newly made bread, I can say to the shopkeeper "can i have a fresh loaf of bread", but can I say I want a "fresh car"? Nope, but an English learner would have to memorise which works and when.

Now thinking about it, how would one describe a car that was fresh from the factory? "newly made", "just made" and "newly created" all sound weird; "newly manufactured car" is the only one that really works. Again this is obvious for a native, but for an English learner this all has to be memorised - man English sure has a "brutal amount of vocab" Wink

damicore Wrote:Like if I listen しんしゃ in a conversation where I can't see the kanji how am I supposed to suppose his talking about his brand 新しい車!?

The context will give you extra clues. Like しんしゃ will always be used along with buying, driving, owning or manufacturing; it'll be obvious what it means. Japanese does have a ton of hynonyms, but context always clears it up.

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - damicore - 2011-05-26

Quote:Took ages before i stopped mistaking 来日 for a word meaning "tomorrow" along the pattern of 来月 and 来年.

Anyways, 来　and 毎　are kanji preffixes so it's a little easier.

but 渡米, come on japs hahaha.

By the way I'm starting to grasp the idea behind all this after all I think Smile

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - aphasiac - 2011-05-26

damicore Wrote:but 渡米, come on japs hahaha.

there's a whole thread dedicated to these funny random compounds:

http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=7646

Lookup 絶対領域 Big Grin

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - Myrddhin - 2011-05-26

aphasiac Wrote:"newly manufactured car" is the only one that really works. Again this is obvious for a native, but for an English learner this all has to be memorised - man English sure has a "brutal amount of vocab"

There is an expression that fits a newly manufactured car: "a brand new car"
Wink

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - yudantaiteki - 2011-05-26

damicore Wrote:
Quote:Took ages before i stopped mistaking 来日 for a word meaning "tomorrow" along the pattern of 来月 and 来年.
Anyways, 来　and 毎　are kanji preffixes so it's a little easier.

but 渡米, come on japs hahaha.

You should avoid using the word "japs", btw.

渡米 is the kind of word that will be used in writing, where you can see the kanji, but not so often in speech. I think many Japanese people would understand 渡米 in context (i.e. if it were spoken on the news or something) but it just sounds too formal for everyday conversation.

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - ta12121 - 2011-05-26

yudantaiteki Wrote:
damicore Wrote:
Quote:Took ages before i stopped mistaking 来日 for a word meaning "tomorrow" along the pattern of 来月 and 来年.
Anyways, 来　and 毎　are kanji preffixes so it's a little easier.

but 渡米, come on japs hahaha.
You should avoid using the word "japs", btw.

Since it's the internet, you usual can't tell if someone joking around when they say "Japs". But most of the time, it's a racist slur (just pointing it out, no offense intended)

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - pudding cat - 2011-05-26

aphasiac Wrote:Now thinking about it, how would one describe a car that was fresh from the factory? "newly made", "just made" and "newly created" all sound weird; "newly manufactured car" is the only one that really works. Again this is obvious for a native, but for an English learner this all has to be memorised - man English sure has a "brutal amount of vocab" wink

Myrddhin Wrote:There is an expression that fits a newly manufactured car: "a brand new car"

I think 'brand new' doesn't really describe a car being 'fresh from the factory' though. It sounds more like a reference to a new range of car rather than an individual car which just left a factory. If you buy something 'brand new' it stresses the fact that you are the first owner I think.

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - cntrational - 2011-05-26

I would understand "brand new car" as, well, a brand new car, not range of cars.

Tefhel Wrote:There's a lot of vocab, but I'm pretty sure that English has the largest amount of vocab of any language. Given it takes words from Greek, Latin, French, German and anywhere else. According to the OED there are 170,000+ words 'in common use'.

You can't really say a language has the largest vocabulary, because it's too difficult to define "word" (do you count compounds? Do the compounds need spaces? Are they words if they were derived via affixes?) It does have the most diverse vocabulary, though.

Edit: And somebody already said this. Bah.

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - zigmonty - 2011-05-26

damicore Wrote:
Quote:Took ages before i stopped mistaking 来日 for a word meaning "tomorrow" along the pattern of 来月 and 来年.
Anyways, 来　and 毎　are kanji preffixes so it's a little easier.

Err my point is that 来日 is a misuse of a common prefix to mean something totally different (well, i suppose it means "coming" in everything). They really could have picked a better one character abbreviation for Japan than 日. It causes a bunch of stupid words like 日中 meaning Japan-China as in 日中関係 (Japan-China Relations).

I guessed 渡米 correctly when i saw it in your post (hadn't seen it before). What's so funny about transiting to America? You know 米 means America in tons of words right?

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - zigmonty - 2011-05-26

yudantaiteki Wrote:
damicore Wrote:but 渡米, come on japs hahaha.
You should avoid using the word "japs", btw.

Totally off topic, but is that word considered offensive in japan or just in the US? Because we use it all the time here, at work (japanese company), and no one seems to bat an eyelid.

Am I the only one who thinks japanese has a brutal ammount of vocab.? - kainzero - 2011-05-26

i'm starting to wonder if it was only racist in America, due to either POW treatment or internment camps (i'm leaning more towards the latter than the former).