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+--- Thread: 6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... (/thread-7835.html)
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - Jarvik7 - 2011-05-17
Interpretation is much much harder since you need to do it on the fly, sometimes before the person finishes the sentence you are interpreting (simultaneous interpretation). Most pro interpreters have significant training and have been bilingual for decades.
I would NEVER accept a freelance interpretation job as I have none of that training.
@Icecream:
Clients post up jobs to the site and anyone can start them if they have passed the requisite test (basic/proofer/pro). I haven't used the site in over a year but I still get new job notification mails all the time. The rate is quite a bit below the industry average (1/2 ~ 1/3 at the pro level), but they need to get their cut afterall and the expectation of quality isn't as high as from a pro-freelancer. Proofing is actually the best value since it takes zero time unless the original translator was a complete failure (which does happen but I just cancel the job in that case).
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - nadiatims - 2011-05-17
I think anyone at around N1 level, or anyone who can read quickly and with high comprehension, could probably pick up the necessary skills to do a decent enough job of J->E translation unless it's of a highly technical nature. Maybe N2 level for easier content but speed could be an issue. For people sub N2 (i.e can't pass N2), I suspect accurate translation particularly at speed would still be too difficult. If you can't pick up and easily read pretty much anything written in Japanese, I don't think it would be possible to do translation of a professional standard at the required speed. I'm not a translator so I may be wrong, but I imagine you pretty much have to be able to just read something and understand it, not decode it.
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - jettyke - 2011-05-17
nadiatims Wrote:I'm not a translator so I may be wrong, but I imagine you pretty much have to be able to just read something and understand it, not decode it.I imagine that understanding, decoding and translating should be at very fast speed and a piece of cake. If it's hard/slow, then I would think that it's too early to use those skills for a job.
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - mutley - 2011-05-17
The problem is that, the things people are willing to pay good money to get translated usually are quite technical. I guess there are some jobs out there where the majority of the work is translation, but not too technical i.e. something like a CIR on the JET programme.
I guess the word 'translator' like the word 'fluent' can have a slightly different meaning to different people. The level of Japanese required will depend on what you want to translate and if you actually expect to make any decent money out of it.
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - IceCream - 2011-05-17
Jarvik, thanks!!!
...maybe i'll give this J-E translator in 6 months thing a go then! may as well get JLPT1 while i'm at it. Well, it's something to aim for, anyway.
Since even the basic level is 18c per character, you'd only have to do, what, 50 words an hour to make that equivalent to a generic office / shop job. That's really not bad at all... certainly doable even if my reading speed isn't great!
even if you had to look up every single word, i'm sure you could do more than 1 a minute...?! (well, the translation wouldn't end up so great if you had to look up every word, but still...)
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - nadiatims - 2011-05-17
damn...just failed the the mygengo Pre-test. I didn't read the test instructions which warn against choosing the overly literal translations. Next time I'll choose the nicely reworded ones. I knew it seemed to easy to be true. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to retake it in 72 hours...Is there anything stopping people from just making a new account with another email address if they fail the pre-test 3 times?
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - Jarvik7 - 2011-05-17
It doesn't pay 18c/character.. Translators make 8c per word at the pro level (though the client pays 12c). The per character rate is a fraction of that.
@nadiatims: When I signed up there was no pretest. You did a translation and one of their evaluators judged it and passed/failed you a week or so later. I'm guessing evaluators got swamped so they added an automated test to weed out lower skilled applicants.
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - IceCream - 2011-05-17
not any more...
http://mygengo.com/help/translator_faqs
check "how much do i get paid". For Japanese and Chinese, it's counted by character, not by word...
it also says a bit about how they count words / characters under word count question.
if you're a pro, it's 48c per character, that's insane...!!
@nadiatims: nope... i signed up with 2 email addresses one minute after each other without deleting internet history when i realised i should probably not take the test with my real email yet...
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - Jarvik7 - 2011-05-17
Look closer.
$.048
4.8c per character
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - IceCream - 2011-05-17
T_T ohhhh. i shoulda known that was too good to be true...
lol@myproofreadingskills
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - nadiatims - 2011-05-17
Yay! passed the test.
@icecream
I don't see how deleting internet history on your end would do anything. I was more afraid they'd monitor IP addresses or something.
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - ta12121 - 2011-05-17
Jarvik7 Wrote:Look closer.ouch
$.048
4.8c per character
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - Jarvik7 - 2011-05-17
That's still not bad considering that it's general translation work and you don't need to be overly concerned with style.
If there are enough jobs up, the content is general, and you're good you can make >$50/hr.
The problem is that jobs get snapped up pretty quick.
I just logged in now and there is only one J-E job up for $22.50 (standard level, 1250 chars) and it's about volcano damage to residential areas. Looking at the text I'm guessing it would take me about 45 minutes to an hour.
Typically I'd want at least $60 to do that amount as a freelancer.
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - nadiatims - 2011-05-17
Are you setting that price based on an expectation of lower volume of work as a freelancer, or because that compares with your rate as a full-time employee? $60 seems like a pretty sweet salary if you're getting regular work. I guess companies that have to do lot of translation work hire full-time staff working at a lower rate?
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - Jarvik7 - 2011-05-17
I get paid less at my day job than I would charge as a freelancer for a variety of reasons.
-I get a paycheck regardless of workload. Some days I do absolutely nothing.
-I get benefits such as health insurance, social security contributions, transportation reimbursement and paid holidays
-I do not need to seek clients myself or handle payment and disputes
-My job isn't just translator. I do market research and participate in auto shows too.
-I am not responsible for final translation quality. Stuff goes through three stages of check (faithfulness to Japanese check, technical check, final check) after I write a document.
The industry standard for general freelance translation work is 14->20 cents per word. Figuring 2.5 kanji per word takes that posted job well past $60. Mygengo uncercuts freelancers in exchange for reduced quality.
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - KMDES - 2011-05-17
Jarvik7: Your stats for becoming a professional translator are quite harsh, harsh to the point that probably 99% of the pro-translators couldn't become pro-translators. Take Ted Woolsey for example. This guy basically revolutionized video game translating. He translated Final Fantasy 6 in 30 days. Yet even he had to hit the vocab books probably a few times, each hour. All the pro-translators I know in video games hit the books often.
Just saying...
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - Cranks - 2011-05-17
Ok, HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHA... oh my god! Seriously, guys. (I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing with you.)
Now, I have inspired no less than 3 pages of people saying it can't be done and a few posts that seem like people have some ideas. It's all sort of amusing as this isn't a serious question for now (or at least not for me).
Probably what you've got to understand is there is a massive difference in quality among translators and companies. If it's your main gig over here then you need to be pretty outstanding in both languages, but if you just wanted to do some of the stuff they have available then it isn't such a biggy really. Anyone with around N1 Japanese can get their foot in the door and after a bit move upwards.
One thing I will say is I'm seriously making a distinction over a writing only translator and an all round translator. They are two different kettle of fish and you need to be careful in their comparison as they require some very different skill sets.
So, look at the question at hand, my guess is no one has any ideas. This is true of everything in learning Japanese, I guess. Most of my great ideas have come from me (some from Nestor, CB and others, but mostly me). I guess I know what works for me best. Oh well.... [sad face]
No doubt someone will ask, "What ideas?", so I feel a sample coming on.
Off the top of my head.
Master Technique Channel No.5
Materials
- Dictionary
- Rikai-chan
- Grammar dictionary
- A few texts specific to the area you wish to translate in.
-- Preferably this is material you can find a translation in your native language easily for comparison.
Method
1. Take your texts, skim for vocabulary.
2. On a separate sheet record vocabulary.
2.1 Add this to Anki with sentence examples.
3. Break each sentence down in an Excel file. One line per sentence.
4. For each sentence attempt a translation.
5. Now look over the translation you found and compare. Why is it different?
6. Put the work away and in a day or two come back to it.
7. Reread the Japanese version first.
8. Highlight the vocabulary that you remember seeing in your flashcard deck (call this confirmation, if you will).
9. Go to your Excel sheet and look at your sentence again. How has your understanding changed? What would that be like in English?
10. Put it aside again.
11. Same process: read, check, highlight in a different color, etc.
12. Now do your final translation of the sentences and put it together as a whole.
13. Work on the content for awhile until the English feels good.
14. Now compare both English translations and through intuition ask yourself which reads better.
15. Show your friends and ask them which they think is better.
16. If you have a high level Japanese/English speaking friend, check with them too.
Why?
We all know that constant review, if done often, with very specific goals and a sure fire process will result in some success. This process teaches you to work from a Japanese text and processes it through the check, check, check, write, review structure presented above. To measure your success you could have a checklist and get your friends to score your translation and the original (not telling them which is which) or just measure by time - let's be honest, turnover time is where you make your money with this line of work (speed being essential economically and in getting more jobs sooner). Note: This continues over maybe 20-100 articles depending on length over 6 months with no other forms of study whatsoever - this is single focused: Get good at reading the material in your area you wish to translate in and get good at translating and that's about it. (You might want to focus on only one area to begin with and add others as you go. Your work or study background would be a good area to work in first - start from what you know best: HR to HR, science to science and so on.)
Well folks. I shared an idea. Could you tweak this? What would you do? Do you like my idea? Why? Why not? If you had a technique what would it be?
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - Cranks - 2011-05-17
P.s., Obviously, you would be doing 5-10 articles at once in the later stages. You would want to train yourself to work on more than one thing and use your time effectively and, perhaps, add deadlines so you get used to working to time as well. You may also want to brush up the earlier works as you get better, so that you can use them as part of your portfolio when knocking on doors.
"Here's 400 articles I have translated from Japanese to English in the past 6 months. Let me show you how I can increase your client satisfaction and give you the sort of turnover time you've always dreamed of." Ringa-ding-dong-ringa-ding-dong...
P.p.s., I want JV's job, lol. Freelance sounds harsh if it's all you have!
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - kainzero - 2011-05-17
KMDES Wrote:Jarvik7: Your stats for becoming a professional translator are quite harsh, harsh to the point that probably 99% of the pro-translators couldn't become pro-translators. Take Ted Woolsey for example. This guy basically revolutionized video game translating. He translated Final Fantasy 6 in 30 days. Yet even he had to hit the vocab books probably a few times, each hour. All the pro-translators I know in video games hit the books often.Ted Woolsey is a relic of an old age when scripts in games were not nearly as important and when translations were made in order to fit the allotted character space instead of expanding that space. =)
Just saying...
Here's a pretty good article on how localization changed. You'll notice that translators now get involved at the start of the project in order to meet programming needs and to interface with the story writers to get an idea of what they want, instead of coming on after a project is finished and the translation is an afterthought.
http://www.1up.com/features/squaresoft-localization
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - pudding cat - 2011-05-17
kainzero Wrote:Ted Woolsey is a relic of an old age when scripts in games were not nearly as important and when translations were made in order to fit the allotted character space instead of expanding that space. =)That article was really interesting, thanks for posting it here
Here's a pretty good article on how localization changed. You'll notice that translators now get involved at the start of the project in order to meet programming needs and to interface with the story writers to get an idea of what they want, instead of coming on after a project is finished and the translation is an afterthought.
http://www.1up.com/features/squaresoft-localization
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - Sebastian - 2011-05-17
Cranks Wrote:Well folks. I shared an idea. Could you tweak this? What would you do? Do you like my idea? Why? Why not? If you had a technique what would it be?If you want to be a translator, keeping track of your characters/words per hour will be important. If you know your translating speed accurately, you can make better guesses about how much it will take you to translate texts. At the same time, you'll have a better idea of how much time you need to work in order to get the money you want.
It seems you like spreadsheets, so you could use a timer each time you start translating something, and when you stop you could add to a spreadsheet the time you spent working, the amount of words you translated and any relevant info (like type of text, topic, etc).
BTW, I think some of you will like Mox's Blog.
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - KMDES - 2011-05-17
*phew* That is one bad webcomic... >_>;
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - IceCream - 2011-05-18
@Cranks:
Going from JLPT3 or so... i would...
1. Spend a good amount of time correcting people's entries on Lang-8. This will make you more aware of grammatical structures and sentence structure. Look up any part of english grammar you're having trouble with, or any sentence you can't think how to make sound right. Later on, use only entries with Japanese & English, and correct their translation to natural english mainly using the Japanese.
2. Answer translation type questions in the What's this word / phrase thread.
3. Work hard on Japanese vocabulary and grammar, using JLPT materials / core6k, etc. Get to JLPT1 level in grammar at least, and be on your way there with vocabulary.
(while doing this,)
4. Start translating small news articles using one of the Japanese news sites.
5. Translate a film or anime (there's a website that does small fan translations / transcriptions, my computer died yesterday and i lost all my links, but maybe someone else can direct you to it).
6. Translate a small book that there's already a translation for, in the way you described, looking at how your translation differs.
7. Read a book in english on translation. (maybe this should be at the start?)
8. Translate longer and harder news articles. When you can do this confidently, you're probably ready.
9. Keep a Japanese names deck, including places, common names, etc.
10. Take the tests on the website Jarvik posted, and see how you do. Work on any areas you fail on.
11. Start translating for that website, then work your way up.
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - Cranks - 2011-05-18
You know, I was thinking over the material that you would need for this and I realized that the following might help:
You can buy those Japanese on one side English on the other books from a book store and do this.
You could use one of those reading builders that have the vocabulary and an English translation.
You could use a textbook for the area you want to work in that has a Japanese translation that is sort of word for word.
6 months to become a J-E Translator. Some thoughts... - Cranks - 2011-05-18
Rethinking the process of this '6-month-get-to-super-translator-ability' process a bit, I think that it would be useful to start with about 3 months of reading of texts at an appropriate level and content using various techniques to break down and utilize the text for kanji recognition and grammatical understanding. All cards are Kanji --> English meaning as you don't need readings due to the overall goal and this more accurately reflects your end goal.
I would say 3 months reading at 100% doing 3-6 hours of reading daily. Follow this up with 3 months of heavy translation at 3 hours a day [b]and reading 3 hours per day[b].
Maybe when I finish up the listening/audio understanding project // manga project, I will try this out. It certainly would be worth it for building up reading ability anyway.