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生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - fugu68 - 2011-05-30
Hi Tori-kun,
Your English sounds fine to me - completely clear, mainly British with just a slight hint of a German accent.
One grammatical error you made was to say "I am learning English since xx years." The correct construction in English for that is "I HAVE BEEN learning English FOR xx years."
Nothing much to worry about really!
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - Tori-kun - 2011-05-30
@fugu: Thanks for your reply! Yeah, present perfect that was learnt in class 6 and the teacher was often ill. It's a bit troublesome since exactly this "have been learning since.." is overlapping with the German present and stays somewhere in my brain, hm. How to get away with the 'german accent', I wonder?
@jettyke: see my すぐ uploaded. Like that?
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - jettyke - 2011-05-30
Yeah, exactly like that!
Mostly all Japanese U-s sound like that. (東京弁)
..hhhahaha you sound like a macho man who persuades a woman to sleep with him
As for English, FE your sh in "English" sounds unusual to me. And you say "A" in jApanese like it's a Japanese A...kinda ジャパnese
Oh English pronunciation is such a bother...I still haven't done anything for my pronunciation just as you because I can't decide on which kind of an accent I want... lol
And well ... English can wait there until I'm fluent Japanese-wise
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - IceCream - 2011-05-30
jettyke Wrote:hahah oh yeah! Well, i can hear it more clearly in englishIceCream Wrote:p.s. i love your accent!!!!Which one
perhaps it's also in the pitch accent in Japanese? Well, i like it, anyway!!! (don't change it lol@Tori-kun, hahah i thought you sounded australian at some points
i also like your "know", very posh british english!! Honestly, though it's not quite a native British accent, there's really nothing that's stereotypically German about your accent at all, it's really very good!!! p.s. "is overlapping" in your post above should be "overlaps"
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - pudding cat - 2011-05-30
@Tori-kun
One thing I noticed is you said JApanese but it should be JapaNESE. Also the 'o' in 'community' was too rounded and so it sounded like こmmunity. The 'o' there should sound more like an 'uh' sound. The same goes for all words related to 'community' - communal, communication etc.
http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=community&submit=Submit
But like fugu said it was completely clear and your German accent is not particularly strong
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - fugu68 - 2011-05-30
pudding cat Wrote:@Tori-kunCommunal is problematic, as it can be pronounced in two ways. Either stressed on the first syllable, in which the first vowel is [oh] (as in hot), OR stressed on the second syllable, in which case the first vowel is [uh], as pudding cat says above.
Also the 'o' in 'community' was too rounded and so it sounded like こmmunity. The 'o' there should sound more like an 'uh' sound. The same goes for all words related to 'community' - communal, communication etc.
http://www.howjsay.com/index.php?word=community&submit=Submit
I mention this, as the howjsay site gives the first pronunciation, which is also listed as the preferred BrEng pronunciation in the Wells Pronunciation dictionary.
@IceCream
FYI, I just played your recordings to a native Japanese speaker. She said that apart from some pitch accent errors in some words, much of your pronunciation sounds completely native. So I'm just a bit jealous.
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - thecite - 2011-05-30
@IceCream
I think you should record audiobooks in Japanese or something, you've got the right voice for it.
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - Tori-kun - 2011-05-30
jettyke Wrote:Yeah, exactly like that!Wow.. ok. I always tend to say 'u' instead of 'ü', since I did not want to sound Turkish or something like that. They have a hell of a lot of 'ü' sounds lol Haunt me with Estonian. It's fun to read the subtitles in Estonian hardsubbed on some series in Russian my parents occassionally watch on TV, haha.
Mostly all Japanese U-s sound like that. (東京弁)
Quote:..hhhahaha you sound like a macho man who persuades a woman to sleep with himHow come?! I sount pretty normal.. I hope that was a compliment, I mean with the persuasion
Quote:As for English, FE your sh in "English" sounds unusual to me. And you say "A" in jApanese like it's a Japanese A...kinda ジャパneseI am a master at imitation. I saw once a video of one guy, an American or British, speaking Japanese fluent and he always said that kind of ジャパnese thing. That just burnt into my brain, it seems. How'd you pronounce the 'sh' in 'English' btw?
Quote:Oh English pronunciation is such a bother...I still haven't done anything for my pronunciation just as you because I can't decide on which kind of an accent I want... lolI must admit American English sounds ways to "chewy" (f.e. words like cowboy, Texas, yeah, yeah, can, can't...), whereas I find Australian accent is something in between AE and BE.
@IceCream: Thanks for your comment!!! I'd like to reach my final aim in my third foreign language, which is English, by getting rid of my accent and I wonder how this could be done. I hope I can count on all of you helping me. The point is I don't want people start thinking if I'm native or not. I just wanna have them persuaded from the moment I talk that I am native.
And yeah.. thecite. IceCream has an amazing voice o0
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - ta12121 - 2011-05-30
I'm still trying to get this to work but here's a very short audio of me reading. Yes I know my voice is low-toned and round(whatever that means)
http://chirb.it/22J3tF
ある日の事でございます
I'm recording some more. I'll post 2-3 more, but longer of course
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - fugu68 - 2011-05-30
Tori-kun Wrote:I'd like to reach my final aim in my third foreign language, which is English, by getting rid of my accent and I wonder how this could be done. I hope I can count on all of you helping me. The point is I don't want people start thinking if I'm native or not. I just wanna have them persuaded from the moment I talk that I am native.Well, it's not just a matter of pronunciation of course: correct grammar, vocab usage etc. will all contribute to that impression.
It might be worth working on vowel sounds in stressed and unstressed syllables, especially the unstressed ones.
This video has some tips on how to speak with a British accent:
But he is quite posh, and not everyone wants to speak like Hugh Grant...
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - pudding cat - 2011-05-30
fugu68 Wrote:But he is quite posh, and not everyone wants to speak like Hugh Grant...Aim for Hugh Laurie! He has a lovely voice
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - jettyke - 2011-05-30
pm215 Wrote:Sorry for such a late reply, I forgot to answer.jettyke Wrote:pm215: To tell the truth, you should definitely work hard to improve your pronunciation. Sounds gaijin-ishYeah, I know (spent a long time either not worrying about it or just plain not speaking much). Any suggestions for techniques?People might even sometimes find it hard to understand you.
I listened to Japanesepod101 newbie lessons where they repeated vocab 3 times very slowly. So I figured out those Japanese syllables and sounds and how to pronounce them eventually.
I think that you should find audio that has clean and smooth language. Like an audio book FE. And then slow the audio down, listen to words again and again and figure those sounds out and repeat repeat until you feel like you can really speak comfortably with those new correct sounds.
It took me about 6 months of listening to those podcasts and repeating those words and sounds until I finally felt like I can speak with those sounds comfortably without the fear of getting embarrassed when I speak them.
...練習練習, just like IceCream said
As you're a man, I really recommend you to find a nice smooth beautiful sexy female voice that makes you want to repeat those uhm...sexy words
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - IceCream - 2011-05-30
i vote for ewan mcgregor!
actually, i think that is the next step for you if you want a perfect british accent Tori, pick one british person you like the sound of, and shadow them intensely!! There's so many different british accents that trying for just general "british" will probably leave you with some holes somewhere.
@fugu: へーそうなの！？ wicked!!! hahah i'd happily exchange an accent for better fluidity and grammar proficiency though :/
thanks thecite, and tori!! man, that'd be a cool job!!! ...i guess in real life impossible, but it would be fun...
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - thecite - 2011-05-30
pudding cat Wrote:Stephen Fry's even better.fugu68 Wrote:But he is quite posh, and not everyone wants to speak like Hugh Grant...Aim for Hugh Laurie! He has a lovely voice
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - SendaiDan - 2011-05-30
thecite Wrote:My vote is for Crocodile Dundee. Mind you, he isn't British...pudding cat Wrote:Stephen Fry's even better.fugu68 Wrote:But he is quite posh, and not everyone wants to speak like Hugh Grant...Aim for Hugh Laurie! He has a lovely voice
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - zigmonty - 2011-05-31
Bit of a side track, but as a speaker of a minor dialect of english, i'd really rather foreign learners not try to imitate a particular english accent so closely (mainly because it's rarely mine lol). I see nothing wrong with a german having a german accent. I definitely don't see why him speaking with a british accent is better.
English isn't like other languages, there is no "official" or "standard" english pronunciation. The major native dialects are fairly radically different from each other in terms of accent (we don't even have the same fricking *number* of vowel sounds as the Americans). We natives are comfortable understanding a huge variety of accents. We do, however, all speak with the same grammar rules, etc so mistakes there really stand out.
@Tori-kun specifically, it's your occasional grammar mistake or slightly unnatural phrasing that causes my brain to trip (very rarely), not your accent, with which i have zero problems. On the whole, i'd rate your english as excellent: at no point would i have any problems understanding what you said. Now, if you were going for an acting job where you'd be playing a midwest american, i'd say your accent needs work...
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - Tori-kun - 2011-05-31
Sorry if that gets slightly off-topic... Just a rare occassion
zigmonty Wrote:Bit of a side track, but as a speaker of a minor dialect of english, i'd really rather foreign learners not try to imitate a particular english accent so closely (mainly because it's rarely mine lol). I see nothing wrong with a german having a german accent. I definitely don't see why him speaking with a british accent is better.Well, to be honest, I had quite a bad experiences being identified as a "German" once. Quite unpleasant, therefore.. Hm, I decided sounding more 'natural' in English would be great
Btw, I LOVE Hugh Laurie. Though, I get basically nothing while listening to the the "House M.D." series I occassionally watch in English.Quote:English isn't like other languages, there is no "official" or "standard" english pronunciation. The major native dialects are fairly radically different from each other in terms of accent (we don't even have the same fricking *number* of vowel sounds as the Americans). We natives are comfortable understanding a huge variety of accents. We do, however, all speak with the same grammar rules, etc so mistakes there really stand out.Yeah, grammar is of course the basis and the pronounciation of certain vowels/consonants or even whole words (f.e. water, colour etc.). I'd really like to aim into the 'hugh laurie'-direction, as IceCream suggested. It's really a pitty I was so.. you know, just stupid in class 6 and skipped English classes always. My English was pretty much non-existant and I missed lots of basics being taught at school. (even if the teacher sucked.)
Perhaps somebody knows a way I could improve it. English grammar is known to me, but I mean something like the Japanese sentence method just for English, also increasing my amount of vocabulary, I really want to work on. Recommendations? Books? Sources?
Quote:@Tori-kun specifically, it's your occasional grammar mistake or slightly unnatural phrasing that causes my brain to trip (very rarely), not your accent, with which i have zero problems. On the whole, i'd rate your english as excellent: at no point would i have any problems understanding what you said. Now, if you were going for an acting job where you'd be playing a midwest american, i'd say your accent needs work...Would be good to know a handful of frequently used idioms/set of phrases and expressions. Naturally, I wanna know the "unnatural phrases" now
*still taking excellent as an insult* <- lol?
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - zigmonty - 2011-05-31
Tori-kun Wrote:Sorry if that gets slightly off-topic... Just a rare occassionHugh Laurie or Hugh Laurie doing an American accent? Because copying House won't get you very close to Hugh Laurie.
zigmonty Wrote:Bit of a side track, but as a speaker of a minor dialect of english, i'd really rather foreign learners not try to imitate a particular english accent so closely (mainly because it's rarely mine lol). I see nothing wrong with a german having a german accent. I definitely don't see why him speaking with a british accent is better.Well, to be honest, I had quite a bad experiences being identified as a "German" once. Quite unpleasant, therefore.. Hm, I decided sounding more 'natural' in English would be great
It's a shame you feel the need to hide your accent, but i suppose i've never really been on the receiving end of that (or even on the receiving end of not speaking a native dialect).
Tori-kun Wrote:Ha! I theoretically learned German for 2 years in high school. Can't speak a word.Quote:English isn't like other languages, there is no "official" or "standard" english pronunciation. The major native dialects are fairly radically different from each other in terms of accent (we don't even have the same fricking *number* of vowel sounds as the Americans). We natives are comfortable understanding a huge variety of accents. We do, however, all speak with the same grammar rules, etc so mistakes there really stand out.Yeah, grammar is of course the basis and the pronounciation of certain vowels/consonants or even whole words (f.e. water, colour etc.). I'd really like to aim into the 'hugh laurie'-direction, as IceCream suggested. It's really a pitty I was so.. you know, just stupid in class 6 and skipped English classes always. My English was pretty much non-existant and I missed lots of basics being taught at school. (even if the teacher sucked.)
Perhaps somebody knows a way I could improve it. English grammar is known to me, but I mean something like the Japanese sentence method just for English, also increasing my amount of vocabulary, I really want to work on. Recommendations? Books? Sources?
Tori-kun Wrote:Afraid i can't help you... watching TV might help. Don't get me wrong, you were using a whole bunch of expressions pretty naturally. I was just saying that it's use of expressions more than accent that marks a non-native speaker as such. The only one that really stands out is the one fugu68 already mentioned. There were a few cases there where you didn't quite finish the sentence but that's not really wrong.Quote:@Tori-kun specifically, it's your occasional grammar mistake or slightly unnatural phrasing that causes my brain to trip (very rarely), not your accent, with which i have zero problems. On the whole, i'd rate your english as excellent: at no point would i have any problems understanding what you said. Now, if you were going for an acting job where you'd be playing a midwest american, i'd say your accent needs work...Would be good to know a handful of frequently used idioms/set of phrases and expressions. Naturally, I wanna know the "unnatural phrases" now
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - Tori-kun - 2011-05-31
No, I meant Hugh Lauries British accent naturally. Suppose he's good at both, though, otherwise, well, he wouldn't be employed at FOX lol
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - pudding cat - 2011-05-31
Tori-kun Wrote:Yeah, grammar is of course the basis and the pronounciation of certain vowels/consonants or even whole words (f.e. water, colour etc.). I'd really like to aim into the 'hugh laurie'-direction, as IceCream suggested. It's really a pitty I was so.. you know, just stupid in class 6 and skipped English classes always. My English was pretty much non-existant and I missed lots of basics being taught at school. (even if the teacher sucked.)This has a list of some audiobooks that Hugh Laurie has read
Perhaps somebody knows a way I could improve it. English grammar is known to me, but I mean something like the Japanese sentence method just for English, also increasing my amount of vocabulary, I really want to work on. Recommendations? Books? Sources
http://www.examiner.com/hugh-laurie-in-national/hugh-laurie-audio-books
Maybe the Alexander McCall Smith ones will have more modern language? Three Men in a Boat is funny although the language is a teensy bit old-fashioned as it was published in 1889. Here's a snippet http://www.youtube.com/user/adraim69#p/c/518037B9B2E37A56/0/ett1M9KEiYo
Or just go on youtube and look for interviews of him talking normally
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - Gingerninja - 2011-05-31
Was going to write Hugh Laurie uses an american accent, but someone else did. I tone my accent down a lot in Japan, because there is only one other English guy here with me, if I spoke in my native (half Scottish, half Geordie mishmash) accent few people would probably understand it.
I find neutral accents s very unnerving, I spent more time trying to figure out where people are from rather than what they say. I was talking to a guy on Ventrilo once and I was trying to place his accent, for a while i thought he had a very light northern Irish accent, but the only thing that gave him away that he wasn't native English.. he messed up a tense way out of place. He was Danish.
So what's written just above is right ^^ grammar is more important than accent, hell if I speak in slangy Scottish it might as well be a different language anyway.
I know a Chinese girl, fluent in Japanese, if I didn't know she was Chinese I'd have thought she was Japanese, most Japanese people upon meeting her don't realise she's Chinese... except occasionally when she speaks fast her く at the end of words (行く etc) comes out with Chinese pronunciation, and so it sounds odd with the rest of everything sounding Japanese.. but damn is it cute.
zigmonty Wrote:Ha! I theoretically learned German for 2 years in high school. Can't speak a word.I studied French for 6.. want to bet I speak less French than you speak German lol. Partly my own "English" arrogance towards foreign languages, partly English schools shitty teaching of other languages. Thinking about it, I'm pretty jealous of Europeans for that.
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - Nuriko - 2011-05-31
After listening to jettyke's impressive reading of the "Q: アメリカでは、子供はテレビやコンピューターゲームの影響で外で遊ばなくなり..." segment, I was inspired to give it a try as well.
Here's my recording: http://chirb.it/zp5Gs7
While there are still many mispronunciations I cringe at in this recording, after many practice recordings, I recalled some advice I heard from a forum member here. That was to keep my mouth more closed than open while reading - almost to the point where my teeth were clenched.
So I read it that way, and I think I managed to reduce my accent a little. Compared to previous recordings of mine where I read with my mouth opened widely (肉屋オウム excerpt 3 months ago: http://chirb.it/KcBK3y ), the recording I just now made doesn't seem to have such a thick accent to me.
Though I received this advice long ago... I'm just starting to realize that speaking with this specific "mouth shape" could be the answer to some accent issues. Anyone wish to give it a try, and share your recording? (sorry, it's pretty off topic ^^ Maybe, in order to stay on topic, use reading material that IceCream has posted for us here: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=7817 )
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - IceCream - 2011-06-01
hahah i've never been able to hear any accent when you speak anyway Nuriko
And your voice is so beautifully clear i honestly can't imagine any Japanese person having trouble understanding you, unless you accidentally totally mispronounce a mora or something...Anyway, i love hearing all sorts of accents in English, as long as they aren't so strong that they make it difficult to understand. i think it sounds nice, and interesting. So i'm really not sure that aiming to have native pronounciation is really important...
As long as we just mimic the sounds as closely as possible, i think any remaining accent is all good!!!
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - Splatted - 2011-06-01
Thanks for the tip Nuriko. I listened to the old one first and was very impressed, but listening to the second one there is obviously a big improvement. You seem to have gotten rid of that wierd Gaijiny sound that native English speakers all seem to have.
@Ice cream: A variety of accents is definetely more interesting, but I find the way I speak incredibly annoying. XD
生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - ta12121 - 2011-06-01
Nuriko Wrote:After listening to jettyke's impressive reading of the "Q: アメリカでは、子供はテレビやコンピューターゲームの影響で外で遊ばなくなり..." segment, I was inspired to give it a try as well.native-level accent for sure. That's an amazing voice, you'd have no problem in terms of accent. You honestly sound like a native from those audiobooks (compliment here)
Here's my recording: http://chirb.it/zp5Gs7
While there are still many mispronunciations I cringe at in this recording, after many practice recordings, I recalled some advice I heard from a forum member here. That was to keep my mouth more closed than open while reading - almost to the point where my teeth were clenched.
So I read it that way, and I think I managed to reduce my accent a little. Compared to previous recordings of mine where I read with my mouth opened widely (肉屋オウム excerpt 3 months ago: http://chirb.it/KcBK3y ), the recording I just now made doesn't seem to have such a thick accent to me.
Though I received this advice long ago... I'm just starting to realize that speaking with this specific "mouth shape" could be the answer to some accent issues. Anyone wish to give it a try, and share your recording? (sorry, it's pretty off topic ^^ Maybe, in order to stay on topic, use reading material that IceCream has posted for us here: http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=7817 )