生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise

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生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - IceCream - 2011-05-12

Last time i was talking about having trouble speaking, puddingcat recommended me a book: Living Japanese 生きた日本語.

i have to say... it's awesome!!! It basically consists of interviews on DVD on a wide variety of topics, and is fully transcribed.

This is the book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Living-Japanese-Diversity-Lifestyles-Conversations/dp/030010958X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1305239049&sr=8-1

and the chapter contents are:
1. Families in transition
2. Homes and their surroundings
3. Reflections of an architect
4. Visiting a cooper
5. The neighbourhood organic farmer
6. Cuisine and contemporary lifestyles
7. Young women on marriage
8. Women and work
9. School days
10. Three views of university life
11. Communicating through anime and manga
12. Perceptions of nature
13. Approaches to environmental education
14. Childhood memories
15. Japanese songs and their context
16. Artistic pursuits in everday life
17. Kendou in contemporary society
18. Conversations with a zen priest
19. Diversity in the Japanese Language (part 1)
20. Diversity in the Japanese Language (part 2)

So, i was thinking about how to make best use of this book, and i think the best thing to do would be to listen to each section of the DVD and read the transcript a couple times, and then try to use the vocabulary and sentence patterns, and ideas the people express as inspiration for making or telling my own thoughts on each subject, what was interesting about what i saw, or how things are different in my own culture.

Anyway, i don't know about you, but i definately have a few opinions or ideas ready about a variety of subjects in English if the conversations ever come up with people i haven't spoken with about it before, and i don't think it's a bad idea to do that in Japanese too...

Well, i could do this on my own, but i think it'd be much more motivating if anyone else was interested in working through the book together...? We could maybe do 1 chapter a week (5-10 mins of the DVD), and either record our thoughts by audio, or just write them in Japanese here if anyone prefers writing practise. (i'll probably have to write before i can speak anyway lol, so both!). Anyway, it can be as short or long as you want, based on your time and Japanese level. The book is around intermediate though, and the transcript is Japanese only, with key words and phrases translated, and parts specific to speech highlighted.

Whadya think? Smile

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - fakewookie - 2011-05-12

Do you post on NeoGAF?

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - IceCream - 2011-05-12

what's NeoGaf? ... and why?!?

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - Zon70 - 2011-05-12

Do you know if the transcript is in ローマ字 or does it have kanji and hiragana?

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - IceCream - 2011-05-12

it's not in romaji, it's in Kanji and hiragana... the Kanji does all have furigana though...

it even transcribes the あのう　まあ　こう type interjections, it's quite interesting!

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - pm215 - 2011-05-13

I have this DVD/book...bought it a while back because it looked good but haven't got round to actually working through it yet. Maybe this is the nudge I need to start doing that :-)

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - Bokusenou - 2011-05-13

Looks awesome! Does anyone know something like this, only using audio files instead of a dvd? Audio files would be more convenient for me. Do they have any group interviews, or conversations (instead of monologues)?

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - Oniichan - 2011-05-13

Bokusenou Wrote:Looks awesome! Does anyone know something like this, only using audio files instead of a dvd? Audio files would be more convenient for me. Do they have any group interviews, or conversations (instead of monologues)?

Maybe light novels that are heavy on dialogue and have unabridged audiobooks? Also, it's not very difficult to strip the audio from a DVD or an avi, so you could strip the audio from the dvd mentioned above and follow along with the transcript or pick episodes of your favorite drama and dl the script from dramanote.

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - KMDES - 2011-05-13

Man, if you have links to unabridged audiobooks with the books that would be absolutely awesome. :o

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - pudding cat - 2011-05-13

KMDES Wrote:Man, if you have links to unabridged audiobooks with the books that would be absolutely awesome. :o

Do you mean something like this? http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=752

@Ice-cream: I'm glad you like the book!

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - KMDES - 2011-05-13

Oooo, transcripts. 8D

Thanks a lot.

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - Andres - 2011-05-13

IceCream Wrote:what's NeoGaf? ... and why?!?

Neogaf is a forum. Neogaf.com
And he probably asked that because there is a user with icecream as a username too.

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - Bokusenou - 2011-05-13

Oniichan Wrote:
Bokusenou Wrote:Looks awesome! Does anyone know something like this, only using audio files instead of a dvd? Audio files would be more convenient for me. Do they have any group interviews, or conversations (instead of monologues)?
Maybe light novels that are heavy on dialogue and have unabridged audiobooks? Also, it's not very difficult to strip the audio from a DVD or an avi, so you could strip the audio from the dvd mentioned above and follow along with the transcript or pick episodes of your favorite drama and dl the script from dramanote.

Thanks for the suggestions!

I've read a lot of light novels, but I've yet to find one with an audiobook, I wasn't aware unabridged audiobooks of lightnovels existed, though I've seen a few short drama CDs and such, if you could email, or otherwise point me in the direction of one of these, I'd be very grateful. ^^

While the dvd looks good, I think recorded conversations (or maybe transcribed group podcasts, if they exist) would be more useful to me.
I'm not really into drama, and through I love anime, for the sake of improving my listening comprehension I really wish there were transcribed natural conversations with audio out there somewhere. With podcasts/news/ワイド番組, etc, I can understand 90-95% of it most of the time, but it's the odd word I can't make out, or find in 大辞泉 that bugs me.

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - fakewookie - 2011-05-13

Andres Wrote:
IceCream Wrote:what's NeoGaf? ... and why?!?
Neogaf is a forum. Neogaf.com
And he probably asked that because there is a user with icecream as a username too.

And I wouldn't have been surprised if he was learning Japanese :p

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - thurd - 2011-05-13

@IceCream
@Bokusenou

Seems exactly like JapanesePod101 but I think its less material to work on. From IceCreams estimation the book is around 100mins of transcribed Japanese dialogue and I've around 200mins of downloaded Jpod material on my phone. I only did around half of Beginner and all Lower Intermediate seasons so there is still plenty of material that I can work on.

My listening exploded during my 3 months that I've been signed there (I'm not anymore since now I work on my production) and I'd recommend their service to anyone. Book sounds good too but you just have to deide for yourself what has more value for you Smile

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - kainzero - 2011-05-13

well, i bought it.

but i thought it would have a cd/mp3 tracks, not a dvd. now i have to figure out how to rip the music and awoehtaophdoashaso;y3oghasdofgo;as

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - Splatted - 2011-05-13

@Bokusenou: Try Japanese Listening Advanced. I haven't used it much, since it's way above my level, but their brief seems to be pretty much exactly what you described.

http://www.voiceblog.jp/japaneselistening/

Edit: Actually, it no longer seems that hard. Yay Big Grin

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - pudding cat - 2011-05-14

thurd Wrote:@IceCream
@Bokusenou

Seems exactly like JapanesePod101 but I think its less material to work on. From IceCreams estimation the book is around 100mins of transcribed Japanese dialogue and I've around 200mins of downloaded Jpod material on my phone. I only did around half of Beginner and all Lower Intermediate seasons so there is still plenty of material that I can work on.

My listening exploded during my 3 months that I've been signed there (I'm not anymore since now I work on my production) and I'd recommend their service to anyone. Book sounds good too but you just have to decide for yourself what has more value for you

I've used the book and JapanesePod101 and I would say that they are different.
- The book just gives you a straight up interview with a native speaker. They're speaking normally, not speaking so as to be understood by a particular level of Japanese learner.
- It's not scripted, the only prompts are 2-3 questions given by the interviewer so you hear normal speech ie there are hesitations, they correct themselves.
- You also hear a variety of speakers, it's not just the same few people talking all the time.

The book is most similar to the audio blogs but in the audio blogs they seem to be reading from a script and it's always the same few people.

They also have different aims. JapanesePod101 actively tries to teach you whilst Living Japanese is meant to help encourage conversation about new topics. I'd say they're both worthwhile, one doesn't replace the other.

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - IceCream - 2011-05-14

omg... i just slept for 21 hours straight...!!!

yeah, JPod101 is very different from this. The people on the DVD speak very naturally, as the interviews are unscripted. I think some people did prepare a little for the interviews first (one person said something like "there's 4 important points about this", which certainly i can't do if i've never thought about it previously) but they aren't reading scripts. But the talk is in general quite thoughtful and interesting as well.

Anyway, yeah... i think the major benefit of this book & dvd in terms of listening is that it is absolutely natural Japanese spoken by real people, not scripted, not "drama-japanese" "anime-japanese" or any other type of staged japanese. You can find this on news interviews as well, but the book transcribes it all perfectly, down to the interjections and mistaken words.

to me, the audio is not particularly difficult, there are some specialised words i didn't know, but the main value is in it's not being the kind of styelised scripted speak that i'm most used to listening to. If someone can find a way of ripping it, the dvd itself isn't too important, you won't miss much from just listening to the audio.

... but yeah, i really wanted to use it to improve speaking on a wide range of interesting topics most!!!

if anyone would like to see the type of thing they speak about, i'd be happy to copy one of the shorter transcripts over so you can see it (each chapter consists of 4 or 5 short interviews with different people in question / response form).

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - Bokusenou - 2011-05-14

thurd Wrote:@IceCream
@Bokusenou

Seems exactly like JapanesePod101 but I think its less material to work on. From IceCreams estimation the book is around 100mins of transcribed Japanese dialogue and I've around 200mins of downloaded Jpod material on my phone. I only did around half of Beginner and all Lower Intermediate seasons so there is still plenty of material that I can work on.

My listening exploded during my 3 months that I've been signed there (I'm not anymore since now I work on my production) and I'd recommend their service to anyone. Book sounds good too but you just have to deide for yourself what has more value for you

JapanesePod101 seems more like it has dialogues made for learners, instead of having natural, authentic conversations, which is more like what I was hoping for but thanks for the suggestion!

Splatted Wrote:@Bokusenou: Try Japanese Listening Advanced. I haven't used it much, since it's way above my level, but their brief seems to be pretty much exactly what you described.

http://www.voiceblog.jp/japaneselistening/

Edit: Actually, it no longer seems that hard. Yay

Thank you so much! That's just the kind of thing I was looking for!^^

IceCream Wrote:if anyone would like to see the type of thing they speak about, i'd be happy to copy one of the shorter transcripts over so you can see it (each chapter consists of 4 or 5 short interviews with different people in question / response form).

Please do! I'm still on the fence over whether to buy this or not.

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - IceCream - 2011-05-14

ok... here's segment 1 of the "school days" chapter. This interview is with a recently retired school teacher of a school in the mountains.

Segment 1: ある山の中の小学校

Q:　この学校の紹介をしていただけますか。

（ええ、）現在、（ええ、）子供は全校で十七名います。それから教職員、先生たちは十二名、本当に、（こう、）小規模な学校です。（ええ、）周りは山に囲まれていて、そして学校のそばには清滝川という川が流れていて、自然がいっぱいの美しいところにある学校です。

Q:　子供たちにどんなことを伝えるのが一番大事だと思いになりますか。

（まあ、）日頃思っていることは、もっとも大事なことは、人に対する思いやりの心、友達を大切にする心という、もうこれがもっとも大きなことです。次に自分自身の子供たちの問題として、自分で考え、自分で判断し、自分から行動するという、いわゆる自主自立の気持ち、それが次に大事なことだと思ってます。

Q:　アメリカでは、子供はテレビやコンピューターゲームの影響で外で遊ばなくなり、想像力も衰えているということが話題になっています。日本の場合はいかがでしょうか。

日本もまったくアメリカと同じような事情があります。（ええ）、テレビ、それから、（ええ）、テレビゲーム、そういう事に対してものすごく一日の時間を費やすということで、（ええ）、想像力、それから創造力、そういうものが失われています。（まあ）、とにかく、（そのう）、子供たちにおかれている現状としては、まず、（こう）、そういう子供たちと接する、友達と接する時間がないということが一つ。その次に、その時間はあるけれども接したい友達がいない、仲間がいない。それからもう一つは、そういう友だちと遊んだり生活するような、その空間が少なくなってきている、いわゆる時間の「間」、仲間の「間」、それから空間の「間」、（こう）、三つの「間」が、今、昔と比べて、薄くなった、少なくなったということが子供たちのそういう想像力、あるいは自主性、自立性を、（こう）、失わせている大きな原因だと思います。

i might post one more segment later, if i have time...

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - IceCream - 2011-05-14

ok, one more segment. This one's from the "Communicating through Anime and Manga" chapter.

Segment 2:

Q: 宮崎さんのテーマは現代社会におけるさまざまな問題をどう反映していると思いますか。

もう、それはそれだけたくさんしゃべるくらいと思いますけど、（ええ）、宮崎さんの作品を見ていると、善と悪で分かれてないんですね。で、それは、（あのう）、日本、（まあ）、私は日本人ですから、日本にいれば自然に感じてることなんですけれども、例えば、神様という考え方、それも（あのう）、（まあ）、キリスト教であればイエスとか、そういう、（あのう）、象徴的な人がいますけれども、日本人の場合は、仏教もありますが、もともとそこにあある、（あのう）、木や石ころや、いろいろなものたちにみんな神様がいるっていう考え方があります。で、それはアニミズム。で、その中には、（あのう）、アメリカの方に分かってもらえるかどうか分かりませんが、そういうものがあると思うんですね。
で、宮崎さんは今のこの世界の状況を考えたときに、（あのう）、ともに生きるとはいったいどういう事なのか、それをいつもすごく考えている人だと思うんですね。で、それは自分と違うものを叩き潰すことではなくて、お互いの差を見つけて認め合って、そして一緒に生きて行くこと、で、差を認め合うっていうことはとても勇気がいることですね。
ですから、「もののけ姫」でも、（あのう）、お互いが違う、違うことを求めているときに戦いが起こりましたね。だから一時期戦いが起こる時もある。だけれども、最後には、違いを認め合って、そしてともにアシタカともののけ姫は別々に生きて行くことを選びますね。で、そういうメッセージ、あと「ナウシカ」の話なんかは、一見腐ってしまった海、（あのう）、森、その中にただ腐っているのではない、それを叩き潰せば世の中がきれいになるわけじゃない、その腐っているものが実はものごとを清めている、きれいにしている作用も同時に持っているんだよということを、（あのう）、物語の中に入れていますね。
ですからこう力で押しつぶして押さえつけて、（あのう）、作り上げる世界ではなくて、力では辿りつけない世界があるんだと、で、それを世界中の人達に伝えたいっていう、そこは今の、（あのう）、ような時代になったら余計にそのメッセージは深いものがあると思いますね。

ok, so that's 2 segments, so you should be able to get an idea of the difficulty level... it's really not so difficult vocabulary wise, though i do have some trouble understanding what he's talking about concept-wise in the one above at some points.

Anyway, yeah, it's full of thoughtful and interesting interviews like the 2 i've written, so yeah, it seems good for working on speaking.

@pm215, kainzero, anyone else who wants to join in... Great!!! Smile

shall we start this week then? So, sayyyy, we have until the end of next sunday to upload our audio / audio transcript / writing / etc here. If your book doesn't arrive in time, you can catch up later though...

this'll be fun Big Grin

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - IceCream - 2011-05-18

ahhhh why is speaking so difficult?!?

ok, here's my entries for the 1st 2 questions from chapter 1, full of grammar mistakes and long gaps while i think about what i want to say. And that's after i already recorded roughly the same thing a couple times already... :/
i don't want to practise too much, because i want to practise speaking a bit on my own, rather than memorising some answer... hopefully it'll get easier though...

ahh well, 練習だ練習！

１．）自分たちの家族構成について話し合いましょう。
http://chirb.it/cfrGHK

２．）家族のあり方は、職業、収入、宗教、結婚年齢、教育水準、人口密度など、さまざまな要因によって規定されます。自分の故郷では、どのような家族構成が一般的でしょうか。また、その構成に影響を与えているものは何でしょうか。
http://chirb.it/0bpI2v

３．）日本では家族構成の変化が社会や経済の構造に対して、さらには未来のあり方に対して多大な影響を及ぼしつつあります。日本における家族構成の変化、とりわけ少子化や高齢化といった現代的な問題とその対策に関して調べ、話し合いましょう。
(i'll do this another day if i have time)

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - pm215 - 2011-05-22

Quote:So, sayyyy, we have until the end of next sunday to upload our audio / audio transcript / writing / etc here

Whoops, I blew most of this weekend away being lazy, so I've watched the DVD segment but didn't get round to much else. I threw together a minute's worth of audio for the first question: http://chirb.it/r3ccmh -- it's clearly been way too long since I last actually did any speaking practice. (Also, embarrassing 道/町 mixup.)

I'll try to get round to the more interesting (difficult!) Q2/Q3 tomorrow if I can.

生きた日本語 Living Japanese, speaking / writing practise - pm215 - 2011-05-25

Another mistake-riddled four minutes, this time on Q2: http://chirb.it/I2yG2s

(I've been procrastinating this for several days, hope this gets easier as we go along :-))