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AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - Tzadeck - 2011-05-24
To me, Khatz is like a harmless Japanese-learning version of Kevin Trudeau.
Kevin Trudeau is a con artist. He's written a bunch of books about health, wellness, weight loss--that kinda stuff. But he has no training in anything really, and he's had a lot of run ins with the law. Whenever anyone points out he's a convicted felon, he points out that the medical/agricultural/whatever industries have a huge amount of money and power to get rid of inconvenient people. And he says he's the victim of that.
Kevin Trudeau's books are just just a bunch of random bullshit about things that he says will 'improve' your health--anything from yoga, to saunas, meditation, scientology, and organic food. He just pushes everything, with the message that you can get healthy, and you can lose weight! You just have to keep at it!
Oh, and don't listen to the medical field and scientists because they're all in it for the money. They can't be trusted.
Anyway, Khatz' writing style and way of giving advice remind me of the way that Trudeau writes. Very disorganized, with very little proof, and a mocking of the usual way of doing things.
Trudeau is very harmful because he's getting people to waste a ton of money, and he's endangering people by encouraging them to distrust medical science. He's also a con-artist through and through--he's only in this for the money.
Khatz legitimately believes he's helping, and for the people who listen it is mostly harmless. After all, if you study Japanese you'll eventually get good at it, and he's encouraging people to study. But he's just spouting random stuff--there's no reason to take any of it seriously.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - nadiatims - 2011-05-24
In all fairness to Khatz, I honestly do think he sincerely believes in his methods. I also think he acknowledges pretty openly that it's all just his own personal experimentation and that his methods are changing. It's also totally fair for him to charge for his course as no one's forcing you to use his service. It's ultimately no different than paying that tofugu guy or paying for smartfm or ling-q or whatever, all unnecessary if you ask me. IMHO Khatz's and plenty of this board's members are overly reliant on SRS and various other time wasting activities that gain increased credibility simply by way of over discussion particularly amongst beginners. For pretty much any skill that some people are able to achieve a high level relatively easily (be it languages/sports/art/music/whatever) those people usually rely on extremely simple methods. I'm skeptical of any method that seemingly requires such constant in depth explanation, lifestyle hacking etc.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - Splatted - 2011-05-24
He also offers a full refund at any point in the course. Hard to complain about that.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - Tefhel - 2011-05-24
I think it's a good idea. Not one that I would personally subscribe to (as I'm not a beginner), but still I think it's good. Clearly there are a lot of people who *want* that kind of specific instruction/direction, and if they're willing to pay for it then why shouldn't he offer it?
I'd certainly be interested to see what kind of materials he suggests people buy, although I imagine some of that info is already scattered throughout his site.
I do also agree that there is a lot of unnecessary hate towards AJATT considering that 90% of people here wouldn't even be on this site if it weren't for him (as they wouldn't be using RTK), and they wouldn't be using SRS, or immersion etc. He's the one who made all those things as popular as they are for learning Japanese.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - Danchan - 2011-05-24
Tzadeck Wrote:Khatz legitimately believes he's helping, and for the people who listen it is mostly harmless. After all, if you study Japanese you'll eventually get good at it, and he's encouraging people to study. But he's just spouting random stuff--there's no reason to take any of it seriously.A lot of Khatz's advice stems from things he has taken from personal development. I.E advice about motivation (situational goals) and time boxing. While he states that he thinks most PD is crap (a sentiment I share) he argues that the good stuff is too good to ignore. I have to agree with his hunch that the reason many people fail at learning a foreign language is because they have never really learned about how to take on any kind of large project and see it through, thanks in part to the passiveness fostered by modern schooling. For such people, advice about motivation is far from a waste of time, but is central to their success.
You must dislike some of that material, I'm not a fan of some of it myself, but even discounting that element of his site that still leaves the core of Khatz's advice. There are several reasons why his ideas should be taken seriously.
1. He acted on them, and became fluent.
2. Other people then acted on them, and showed similar/same results.
3. They are based on ideas taken from the likes of Stephen Krashen (input hypothesis) and the folks at http://www.antimoon.com.
So, he has a theoretical basis for his ideas, and actual proof that they work. Given that this is the case, what is your justification for comparing him to a con artist?
I'm going to throw in here by the way, that I studied Japanese for many years, including a year of exchange, but it wasn't until I found AJATT and really carried out Khatz's advice as best I could that I really became fluent. This is only my experience. Everybody is different. But nobody, certainly not Khatz, is claiming that his way is the -only- way. But it is -a- way (and a damn site better than what is typically offered to people setting out to learn a foreign language).
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - Tzadeck - 2011-05-24
Going to Yakushima for the week. Maybe I'll respond next Tuesday?
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - sesshomaru - 2011-05-24
Tefhel Wrote:I do also agree that there is a lot of unnecessary hate towards AJATT considering that 90% of people here wouldn't even be on this site if it weren't for him (as they wouldn't be using RTK), and they wouldn't be using SRS, or immersion etc. He's the one who made all those things as popular as they are for learning Japanese. I've also noticed he claims to be right and know everything on far fewer occasions than many members on here, and only THEIR method works.I am one who found out about this site via AJATT several years ago and its always seemed weird that Khatz receives so much hate. Most of it I read in the same light as those who don't understand RTK and insist that is nothing more than a fad and unproven. This even in the face of 30+ years, 6 editions and 1000's of people writing and blogging about a renewed interest in learning Japanese because of RTK. Not to mention the development of SRS into a new staple in studying practically anything, something I didn't understand and took several attempts to read about and use before seeing its value.
I don't see much difference between Khatz and Heisig in promoting unorthodox methods that yield results.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - nadiatims - 2011-05-24
tehfel Wrote:I do also agree that there is a lot of unnecessary hate towards AJATT considering that 90% of people here wouldn't even be on this site if it weren't for him (as they wouldn't be using RTK), and they wouldn't be using SRS, or immersion etc. He's the one who made all those things as popular as they are for learning Japanese.I don't hate AJATT or Khatz, I just think there's a better way to go about learning a language and that a lot of newbs who don't know any better get all hyped up after reading his blog only to waste a whole lot of time on things that really don't matter and chasing diminishing returns.
Anyway, immersion is common sense among serious language learners. There are plenty of other people recommending it (various polyglots, krashen etc), RTK isn't the only way to learn kanji and people not discovering SRS isn't necessarily a bad thing (people have been doing fine without it for thousands of years and it is largely ignored by the best internet polyglots).
To be more specific as to faults with some of Khatz's recomendations:
Sentence method (tedious and unnecessary)
monolingual after 500 sentences (why?)
recommendation of constant immersion including while sleeping (diminishing returns. It's unnecessary. Encourages an endless search for new media. Beginners listening to crap music/tv/whatever they don't understand out of a sense of duty will do relatively little for their level.)
obsession with micro-managing (time-boxing, reps etc)
Useless recommendations like redecorating your room with Japanese stuff.
SRS (not necessary and a huge time waster if used badly. Encourages obsessive compulsive hording/creation and subsequent reviewing of material of dubious usefulness/importance in an artificial language context. Takes time away from reading/listening/conversing)
nado nado
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - Tefhel - 2011-05-24
sesshomaru Wrote:I think that's a really good point. I know a lot of people (personally) who are like "What is the point of Heisig? You don't learn the readings! What a waste of time" etc. And I think people moaning about AJATT just look at it and go "Nope that's rubbish, you can't get good in 18 months, listening when you don't understand clearly won't work etc etc." when they haven't even tried it.Tefhel Wrote:I do also agree that there is a lot of unnecessary hate towards AJATT considering that 90% of people here wouldn't even be on this site if it weren't for him (as they wouldn't be using RTK), and they wouldn't be using SRS, or immersion etc. He's the one who made all those things as popular as they are for learning Japanese. I've also noticed he claims to be right and know everything on far fewer occasions than many members on here, and only THEIR method works.I am one who found out about this site via AJATT several years ago and its always seemed weird that Khatz receives so much hate. Most of it I read in the same light as those who don't understand RTK and insist that is nothing more than a fad and unproven. This even in the face of 30+ years, 6 editions and 1000's of people writing and blogging about a renewed interest in learning Japanese because of RTK. Not to mention the development of SRS into a new staple in studying practically anything, something I didn't understand and took several attempts to read about and use before seeing its value.
I don't see much difference between Khatz and Heisig in promoting unorthodox methods that yield results.
I mean there are some members theories here that sound like absolute, utter turd to me, and are put over in an incredibly patronising 'this is the ONLY way to do it and is much better than those idiots who do such and such (usually AJATT)'. But I wouldn't go and start bashing them for it, I've not tried their method.
Fair enough if you've tried the method (or any method not necess. AJATT) but there are loads of things to take away from anything without having to resort to ranting and ad hominem.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - nest0r - 2011-05-24
I'm sick of hearing about Khatzumoto and AJATT. Certain parts of it were useful years ago, once you ignored the writing style and figured out where the handful of good ideas came from (e.g. Antimoon, RTK), and a minority of the site remains so as a kind of FAQ, despite the existence of superior ideas offered collaboratively and for free by the RevTKers, and he's free to con whoever he wants into paying him money for his endless pages of patter, but otherwise there's no reason to constantly talk about this person as if they're special. He's become the Paris Hilton of Japanese self-study. In fact, the only reason anyone here ever talks about Khatzumoto is to discuss his pricing/commercialism, no?
As for the constant silly 90% claims about posters here owing AJATT. People use resources all the time in bits and pieces, if they look for them. I was looking for better ways to learn kanji, and found RTK via Amazon. Then I found this site via The Japan Times, because I had nascent thoughts on how best to use RTK and looked for it. I don't owe either of those places a subscription or uncritical praise.
This is what I got from AJATT: Sentences as the language chunks to be SRSed. Which I think is an Antimoon thing? This I found because I was looking for it, e.g. I had ideas of what I wanted but couldn't put my finger on them, so I searched. I didn't care whether this person on the internet claimed they became fluent in X small amount of time i.e. how skillful they truly were and how they got there, I was indifferent to the pros and cons of their personality, etc.
From there I treated AJATT's posts similar to that of a forum member, e.g. posting ideas about self-study. After a handful of comments there parallel to participation here, I found the blog format for collaboration to be inferior—likewise the general quality of the ideas (a product of the format, I believe)—so when I committed to one main place, I became a RevTKer, not an AJATTeer. I'm a self-student, not a would-be language guru's follower. Try thinking for yourself instead of paying someone else to do it for you. Or don't, but please stop repeating the same claims here like everyone owes Khatzumoto for using RTK, Khatzumoto became fluent through his own methods, Khatzumoto tells you to think for yourself, blah blah. We've heard it and replied to it all before, and I'm not sure what the point is, other than to say we shouldn't criticize Khatzumoto, no matter how often we present a variety of our own reasons to do so.
Personally I'm not really criticising Khatzumoto since I could care less about him or Paris Hilton/Kevin Trudeau, I'm criticising the people who post defenses of him that rely on denying counterargumentation or that laughably attempt to condescend to RevTKers by placing AJATT on a pedestal.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - Tefhel - 2011-05-24
nest0r Wrote:Certain parts of it were useful years ago, once you ignored the writing style and figured out where the handful of good ideas came from (e.g. Antimoon, RTK),You can say the same about many 'methods' posted here by RTKers. Ignore the writing style [patronising], find where the good ideas come from [Smart FM, Antimoon via AJATT, RTK, various textbooks]. That's why I just wonder why people choose to single him out for their vitriol, that's all, or moan about ideas being stolen from elsewhere. Just sounds like hypocrisy to me, but maybe you disagree.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - nest0r - 2011-05-24
Tefhel Wrote:It's not remotely hypocrisy. I don't just maybe disagree, I'm baffled how you're even comparing them. This is a forum where people constantly post, praise, and critique ideas and methods that emerge into a variety of ideas. I've posted elsewhere that I believe in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_discovery - To me, taking the fruits of this and trying to turn it into a blind, profiteering ‘heroic’ mythology runs counter to truth and productive prosperity, which I value.nest0r Wrote:Certain parts of it were useful years ago, once you ignored the writing style and figured out where the handful of good ideas came from (e.g. Antimoon, RTK),You can say the same about many 'methods' posted here by RTKers. Ignore the writing style [patronising], find where the good ideas come from [Smart FM, Antimoon via AJATT, RTK, various textbooks]. That's why I just wonder why people choose to single him out for their vitriol, that's all, or moan about ideas being stolen from elsewhere. Just sounds like hypocrisy to me, but maybe you disagree.
First, I've already said Khatzumoto is no different, except by virtue of the fact that they're set up as a separate central figure more visible than most, by critics of commercialism and the like, and by AJATT followers who tend to elevate the heat of the discourse by making claims of hate/etc. That's kind of my point.
If a forum poster here left to start their own site and took a bunch of ideas from themselves, here and elsewhere and gave it a name, implicitly and explicitly tying it all together as evidence of their singular value, gained a following, charged for services, etc., and when people started arguing over them, and those followers repeat the same arguments no matter how they're addressed, while claiming it's all just hate/jealously, e.g. feeding into the elevation of so-and-so onto a pedestal rather than thinking beyond the guru-ship, then I'd post the same comments as I usually do.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - Tefhel - 2011-05-24
nest0r Wrote:Ah, so it's having a website, and having followers and selling things that you disagree with. Well, fair enough. I was myself incredibly baffled how you could on the one hand moan about someone taking ideas from elsewhere, and on the other hand praise people here when the majority of their methods use borrowed ideas and stolen copyrighted materials.Tefhel Wrote:It's not remotely hypocrisy. I don't just maybe disagree, I'm baffled how you're even comparing them. This is a forum where people constantly post, praise, and critique ideas and methods that emerge into a variety of ideas. I've posted elsewhere that I believe in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_discoverynest0r Wrote:Certain parts of it were useful years ago, once you ignored the writing style and figured out where the handful of good ideas came from (e.g. Antimoon, RTK),You can say the same about many 'methods' posted here by RTKers. Ignore the writing style [patronising], find where the good ideas come from [Smart FM, Antimoon via AJATT, RTK, various textbooks]. That's why I just wonder why people choose to single him out for their vitriol, that's all, or moan about ideas being stolen from elsewhere. Just sounds like hypocrisy to me, but maybe you disagree.
First, I've already said Khatzumoto is no different, except by virtue of the fact that they're set up as a separate central figure more visible than most, by critics of commercialism and the like, and by AJATT followers who tend to elevate the discourse by making claims of hate/etc. That's kind of my point.
If a forum poster here left to start their own site and took a bunch of ideas from themselves, here and elsewhere and gave it a name, implicitly and explicitly tying it all together as evidence of their singular value, gained a following, charged for services, etc., and when people started arguing over them, and those followers repeat the same arguments no matter how they're addressed, while claiming it's all just hate/jealously, e.g. feeding into the elevation of so-and-so onto a pedestal rather than thinking beyond the guru-ship, then I'd post the same comments as I usually do.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - nest0r - 2011-05-24
Tefhel Wrote:Well, you've quoted me at length, so the text is there twice for you to read and think about when you're ready to read it.nest0r Wrote:Ah, so it's having a website, and having followers and selling things that you disagree with. Well, fair enough. I was myself incredibly baffled how you could on the one hand moan about someone taking ideas from elsewhere, and on the other hand praise people here when the majority of their methods use borrowed ideas and stolen copyrighted materials.Tefhel Wrote:You can say the same about many 'methods' posted here by RTKers. Ignore the writing style [patronising], find where the good ideas come from [Smart FM, Antimoon via AJATT, RTK, various textbooks]. That's why I just wonder why people choose to single him out for their vitriol, that's all, or moan about ideas being stolen from elsewhere. Just sounds like hypocrisy to me, but maybe you disagree.It's not remotely hypocrisy. I don't just maybe disagree, I'm baffled how you're even comparing them. This is a forum where people constantly post, praise, and critique ideas and methods that emerge into a variety of ideas. I've posted elsewhere that I believe in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_discovery
First, I've already said Khatzumoto is no different, except by virtue of the fact that they're set up as a separate central figure more visible than most, by critics of commercialism and the like, and by AJATT followers who tend to elevate the discourse by making claims of hate/etc. That's kind of my point.
If a forum poster here left to start their own site and took a bunch of ideas from themselves, here and elsewhere and gave it a name, implicitly and explicitly tying it all together as evidence of their singular value, gained a following, charged for services, etc., and when people started arguing over them, and those followers repeat the same arguments no matter how they're addressed, while claiming it's all just hate/jealously, e.g. feeding into the elevation of so-and-so onto a pedestal rather than thinking beyond the guru-ship, then I'd post the same comments as I usually do.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - Tefhel - 2011-05-24
nest0r Wrote:Well, you've quoted me at length, so the text is there twice for you to read and think about when you're ready to read it.Thanks, I would never dare to miss a single one of your ubiquitous pearls of wisdom.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - nest0r - 2011-05-24
Tefhel Wrote:I realize you're merely wasting time with sarcasm, but it's not wisdom, it's simple truth. Don't dishonestly oversimplify and mischaracterize the statements of others, and/or you should take the time to overcome your perceptual biases and read the thoughts of others accurately if you're going to engage in discourse. It's common sense and shows integrity.nest0r Wrote:Well, you've quoted me at length, so the text is there twice for you to read and think about when you're ready to read it.Thanks, I would never dare to miss a single one of your ubiquitous pearls of wisdom.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - Tefhel - 2011-05-24
nest0r Wrote:Ah there we go, everything you say is the 'truth' is it? Or have I misinterpreted you again? All I'm advocating is a little respect to everybody's methods, website or not, followers or not, overpriced books, courses etc. or not. No one here has 'the truth', the fact there are so many different methods here (and all over the net) is testament to that fact, if they did have the 'truth' they wouldn't even be on this forum debating learning methods ad nauseam, they'd have already learnt Japanese and moved on.Tefhel Wrote:I realize you're merely wasting time with sarcasm, but it's not wisdom, it simple truth. Don't dishonestly oversimplify and mischaracterize the statements of others, and/or you should take the time to overcome your perceptual biases and read the thoughts of others accurately if you're going to engage in discourse. It's common sense and shows integrity.nest0r Wrote:Well, you've quoted me at length, so the text is there twice for you to read and think about when you're ready to read it.Thanks, I would never dare to miss a single one of your ubiquitous pearls of wisdom.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - Asriel - 2011-05-24
I, too, came here on my own volition. I heard about RtK, heard it was "controversial," and decided to try it out for myself. Doing a little bit of poking around, this site came up. And here I am.
Regarding Khatz/AJATT -- I think I'd prefer it if he were a normal forum poster rather than a blogger-gone-guru. On a forum there's discussion, experiences, counter-arguments, etc. On a blog, you've got one guy, and a bunch of people following him. He gets ideas here and there; we also get ideas here and there. The difference is that the people following him just get his input, and it doesn't evolve unless his ideas evolve. In a forum setting, more people can participate and come up with or throw out ideas in a more efficient manner. Where you get your ideas is irrelevant. While he tells people to think for themselves, they end up just following him, because he got fluent in 18 months, and so can you! I like your Khatz. I do not like your Khatzians, they are so unlike your Khatz.
So yes, I see him as just another "one of us," albeit in a different format.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - nest0r - 2011-05-24
Tefhel Wrote:Yes, you mischaracterized, deliberately or not, in order to generalize and attack a persona. Just as you took my comment, ignored what didn't suit you, and rewrote it in a simpler, false form in order to disagree with it. The simple truth lies in the logical reaction to the differences between what you quoted and what you wrote in response. Either you're being deliberately dishonest, or because of your biases, you've misinterpreted them. Overcoming this is a mark of common sense and integrity.nest0r Wrote:Ah there we go, everything you say is the 'truth' is it? Or have I misinterpreted you again? All I'm advocating is a little respect to everybody's methods, website or not, followers or not, overpriced books, courses etc. or not. No one here has 'the truth', the fact there are so many different methods here (and all over the net) is testament to that fact, if they did have the 'truth' they wouldn't even be on this forum debating learning methods ad nauseam, they'd have already learnt Japanese and moved on.Tefhel Wrote:Thanks, I would never dare to miss a single one of your ubiquitous pearls of wisdom.I realize you're merely wasting time with sarcasm, but it's not wisdom, it simple truth. Don't dishonestly oversimplify and mischaracterize the statements of others, and/or you should take the time to overcome your perceptual biases and read the thoughts of others accurately if you're going to engage in discourse. It's common sense and shows integrity.
I said that critics of AJATT's commercialization and his followers tend to elevate Khatzumoto, and this is unwarranted, because I feel Khatzumoto is nothing special, only a peer. I pointed out the difference between a forum and a blog with regards to how they've led to collaboration vs. hero worship, which Asriel also elucidated. I pointed out that it's when someone who is just a peer is elevated through a blog and their followers in this way, it's a problem, especially as it leads to those followers taking legitimate criticism (itself an incidental aspect of format differences, not evidence of value) and either ignoring it or deceptively repainting it as something in line with what they want to complain about. Such as making accusations of vitriol, or taking Khatzumoto's claims as gospel (and it's not even that people take anecdotal internet evidence as proof, it's the presupposition of a specific source of anecdotal evidence as intrinsically correct). Thus illustrating that the points against guru-hood are being legitimately made.
You took bits and pieces of this and claimed that I find the existence of Khatzumoto's site, his followers, and his commercialization as themselves what I disagree with. You implied a forum and a blog are the same, even after I explained the differences. You didn't even deny they're different and make the case for that, no, you simply ignored my explanation, presupposed they're still the same, and then falsely claimed that I am moaning about ideas being ‘stolen’ and distributed in a blog rather than a forum, while simultaneously characterising this forum as consisting primarily of borrowed ideas and pirated materials, as if this is true, much less relevant to what I was actually saying.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - Tefhel - 2011-05-24
nest0r Wrote:-snip-OK, I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one! I'm sure we both have better things to do than get stuck in an endless slanging match.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - mark95427 - 2011-05-24
Tzadeck Wrote:To me, Khatz is like a harmless Japanese-learning version of Kevin Trudeau.http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/all-japanese-all-the-time-ajatt-how-to-learn-japanese-on-your-own-having-fun-and-to-fluency
Kevin Trudeau is a con artist. He's written a bunch of books about health, wellness, weight loss--that kinda stuff. But he has no training in anything really, and he's had a lot of run ins with the law. Whenever anyone points out he's a convicted felon, he points out that the medical/agricultural/whatever industries have a huge amount of money and power to get rid of inconvenient people. And he says he's the victim of that.
Kevin Trudeau's books are just just a bunch of random bullshit about things that he says will 'improve' your health--anything from yoga, to saunas, meditation, scientology, and organic food. He just pushes everything, with the message that you can get healthy, and you can lose weight! You just have to keep at it!
Oh, and don't listen to the medical field and scientists because they're all in it for the money. They can't be trusted.
Anyway, Khatz' writing style and way of giving advice remind me of the way that Trudeau writes. Very disorganized, with very little proof, and a mocking of the usual way of doing things.
Trudeau is very harmful because he's getting people to waste a ton of money, and he's endangering people by encouraging them to distrust medical science. He's also a con-artist through and through--he's only in this for the money.
Khatz legitimately believes he's helping, and for the people who listen it is mostly harmless. After all, if you study Japanese you'll eventually get good at it, and he's encouraging people to study. But he's just spouting random stuff--there's no reason to take any of it seriously.
When you get the basics of his "Table of Contents" down, his information is incredibly useful. However, I agree that most of the site is confusing ramble.
When I was 13, I tried to learn Kanji and Grammar through smart.fm and tae kim. But, I was like "ff' this".
Then, I found AJATT and I was like "this seems easy, this site provides a straightforward path to learning japanese"
I can't buy books or lessons, so yeah... AJATT was useful.
I also used other resources though, like Tofugu.
Yes, I once was a newb. Now, I am a learned man.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - Realism - 2011-05-28
I don't understand where all this criticism is coming from.
Khatz doesn't demand your money, hell, 98% of what he offers is completely free. The other 2% are like donations almost. And with those donations he will give you a more DETAILED explanation of what AJATT is about. But you don't really need it, you have all of it already on his website. Now if he starts charging people to just browse his web contents then it's a problem.
But I don't see how Khatz is saying anything wrong.
You want to be fluent Japanese, then everything you do should be in Japanese.
You're sure as hell isn't going to learn Japanese by doing stuff in English.
I don't know anybody who's fluent in Japanese by doing in stuff in English 95% of the time, and then flip through some Japanese textbooks for 30 minutes and call it a day....that's comical.
I seriously don't see how this is controversial. It's almost like common sense.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - Asriel - 2011-05-28
Realism Wrote:I seriously don't see how this is controversial. It's almost like common sense.I'm not sure if my type of criticism is what you're talking about... but this point is exactly why I'm not too keen on it. He's a guy with good ideas. The immersion thing is obvious -- and yet people tend to guru-fy him. For coming up with ideas that are common sense...?
He's just like you and me, but some people don't see it that way.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - zer0range - 2011-05-28
ta12121 Wrote:I wouldn't say I'm familiar with efficiency study methods. I just stuck with it. I still believe that it will probably take me 3-5 years for my goals of fluency. But only time well tell, I just need to keep going and keep learning. Eventually I'll be at my goals, it's just a matter of putting in the timeIn my opinion, I would say that you are familiar - of course, not knowing you, I can't speak to whether or not you use them.
Talk to many people, and the ability to learn a second language is an almost mystical trait, and without it second language acquisition is nearly impossible. Sometimes they will pay lip service to hard work, putting the time in, etc.. but on the whole you get the feeling that they believe it is simply a matter of whether or not you have a talent for languages.
AJATT Silverspoon- Thought's opinions? - ta12121 - 2011-06-16
zer0range Wrote:Talent is one of those things that everyone has but it's your choice if you want to use it to your full abilities. Obviously I'm not saying you can achieve everything but you can achieve the things you desire. Most of the people I know, don't really praise me for learning Japanese. That to me is a good thing but I have meet people who praised me a lot for it. Personally, I don't need to get praised as anyone can get this.ta12121 Wrote:I wouldn't say I'm familiar with efficiency study methods. I just stuck with it. I still believe that it will probably take me 3-5 years for my goals of fluency. But only time well tell, I just need to keep going and keep learning. Eventually I'll be at my goals, it's just a matter of putting in the timeIn my opinion, I would say that you are familiar - of course, not knowing you, I can't speak to whether or not you use them.
Talk to many people, and the ability to learn a second language is an almost mystical trait, and without it second language acquisition is nearly impossible. Sometimes they will pay lip service to hard work, putting the time in, etc.. but on the whole you get the feeling that they believe it is simply a matter of whether or not you have a talent for languages.
I'd say the best trait to have in learning a language is: maintaining. If you have that, you'll succeed in no time. If not, if your the time of person who believes in getting results fast(won't happen with languages or loosing weight). Then it will be hard.