Sentence Deconstruction: To Do or Not to Do. - Printable Version +- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com) +-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html) +--- Forum: The Japanese language (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-10.html) +--- Thread: Sentence Deconstruction: To Do or Not to Do. (/thread-7691.html)

Sentence Deconstruction: To Do or Not to Do. - Cranks - 2011-04-19 In Brief... # Reducing sentences down to their parts to consider their connections. # Using sentence trees to achieve this (parse trees). # Worried about 2 things: value and time usage. Not So Brief Version: So, I want to ask people here if they have tried sentence deconstruction before and if it worked (or have tips on how to do it efficiently). My reason for considering this is, in a nutshell, that I vaguely believe that we a some point while learning to read break the sentences we see down into meaningful parts (unconsciously). What I am thinking is that a lot of what is considered to be grammar are really just words that have a relationship that exists at the sentence construction level (I think this applies to things like ように, etc. more than に、が、は、え、を、で, which are much less words and more indicators of meaning/sentence function change.) Hence, perhaps, if I were to actually see this in a tree format, or similar, I might be able to learn the unconscious process, or at least improve it, through developing the skill. Advantages # Able to see construction more clearly. # Perhaps, able to understand more complex grammar. # Training a process that may or may not exist. Disadvantages # Time consuming. (3 minute or so each) # Possibly worthless. # Not much mention online, so didn't work for those that used it? What I'm hoping for is a few opinions and personal experiences, as well as some tips, from the members here to ground me firmly back into reality before I do something that burns my time or to help me see how this could work to improve my life through its wonderful effectiveness. Let me know what you think. Sentence Deconstruction: To Do or Not to Do. - Cranks - 2011-04-19 Parse Tree I think it would be more effective if I didn't consider it so much as noun, verb, and so on, but "the person acting" [act], "the action" [A], "Who/what did something" [W/W]. I think that labels have more meaning if they make sense to the user and if they fit what is going on in the sentence. Also, none of this would need to be written, although it would help due to the value of actually seeing things on paper vs. having them in your head. Sentence Deconstruction: To Do or Not to Do. - pm215 - 2011-04-19 I do think it's worthwhile sometimes to take a sentence that's kind of on the border of your understanding grammatically, and take it apart and convince yourself that you really do understand how all the parts fit together. You don't need to do it all the time, but I think it's a useful part of the progression from purely theoretical understanding of some grammar point to a practical knowledge of what it means. By all means draw trees if that's what works for you... ETA: this is sort of a graphical variation on the bit in the back of the Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar about identifying "extended sentential units"; the last part of Jay Rubin's "Making Sense of Japanese" is also kind of relevant I think. Sentence Deconstruction: To Do or Not to Do. - kainzero - 2011-04-19 If you use a grammar textbook and rely on the "structure of the day," that is why you don't see people break down sentences very often. They're often presented in digestible parts and short sentences. I often read and re-read a sentence and break it down in my head if I don't understand it. I had to do it a lot to learn ほど because it's expressed in the complete opposite way as English. "It was so big that I couldn't eat it." 「食べれないほど大きかったです。」 After a while I got used to it, then when I see it in long sentences I began to understand it easier as well. If you need to break it down to understand it, well, you gotta do what you gotta do. pm215 is right in that DBJG breaks it down. DIJG also has a section on it, and it also shows what happens if you don't break it down correctly. Sentence Deconstruction: To Do or Not to Do. - Cranks - 2011-04-19 I'll have to have a look at that. I remember DOBJG did quite a good job. Thanks for the feedback guys.