+- kanji koohii FORUM (http://forum.koohii.com)
+-- Forum: Learning Japanese (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-4.html)
+--- Forum: General discussion (http://forum.koohii.com/forum-8.html)
+--- Thread: Lost ^^; (/thread-767.html)
Lost ^^; - kireina_yozora - 2007-09-05
Hello. I'm new on this board, found the link on some page. I thought that testing kanji easily online is a good idea, so I checked it out.
Indeed the site is really nice, and the reviewing seems easy. The problem is that I studied Kanji so far using the raw method: draw the kanji, remember on/kun, some words using the kanji and try to remember them by remembering most common words with it. In other words, learning was based on the japanese readings, and much less on the English meaning not to mention mnemonics (which is a very nice method, so much I could see). Seeing the cards on this site I am missing the on/kun readings a lot. Is there any way to display the on/kun readings together with the english meanings?
As far as I can notice, the site is more of an extension to a book series, having a different learning order as the one I used. Not having that resource at hand, and without the on/kun readings I find the site difficult to use, without looking up the respective kanji elsewhere.
I'm sorry if this subject was already brought up, but on a scan through the forums I didn't find anything relevant. What I am searching for is a place where I can review kanji online without needing to look up extra info from other sources. Am I in the wrong place?
Thanks for your kindness. ^_~
Lost ^^; - yorkii - 2007-09-05
thats a good point.
i can't see it hurting to include the on / kun readings for kanji after you have pressed the spacebar to reveal it. But then, I am not Fabrice (site creator).
Lost ^^; - johnzep - 2007-09-05
http://www.nanzan-u.ac.jp/SHUBUNKEN/publications/miscPublications/pdf/RK4/RK%201_sample.pdf
this is a sample of the book the site is based on. The introduction will explain some of the wackiness here. (i.e. the lack of readings and the ordering of the kanji)
Lost ^^; - resolve - 2007-09-05
I don't think learning kanji->readings is a good idea. The readings should be learnt for words, not individual kanji. Apparently Fabrice is working on some sentence-based review method. That sounds like a better solution than inserting all the readings on each kanji.
Lost ^^; - kireina_yozora - 2007-09-05
resolve Wrote:I don't think learning kanji->readings is a good idea. The readings should be learnt for words, not individual kanji. Apparently Fabrice is working on some sentence-based review method. That sounds like a better solution than inserting all the readings on each kanji.The simple reason I'm searching for the readings is because living in Japan forces you to read Japanese wherever you go. Seeing 出口 at the trainstation and automatically thinking aa, deguchi is much better than thinking "exit mouth". It is good to remember the English meaning for times when you read a text for yourself, and even if you can't actually remember and READ the kanji, you can UNDERSTAND the meaning behind it. I was always thinking, when learning a language try using it and think in that language as much as possible. Falling back to your native language / English would be only the last resort. Not to mention remembering on/kun with a few words actually expands your vocabulary and is very very useful when trying to talk to someone. Besides having on/kun in some corner can't be THAT bad... or? ^^;
Oh, and thanks for the responses. The book doesn't have the on/kun either. T_T
Lost ^^; - resolve - 2007-09-05
You seem to be misunderstanding the point of Heisig.
And I've lived in Japan for 3 years, and I still don't think that learning all the readings for a kanji (or even the most common) is useful. You should learn words (like 出口) instead. Then if you encounter an unknown kanji you can guess the reading based on your existing vocabulary instead of an arbitrary list of readings.
Lost ^^; - kireina_yozora - 2007-09-05
Resolve, as you may have clearly noticed, I'm totally new to the concept of learning Kanji based on mnemonics. I don't want to engage in a flame war on what would be the best way of learning Kanji. I just wanted to know if I can or cannot see the on/kun on the kanji study/review cards on the site. Mnemonic based learning seems like a good idea, and I'll look further into it, but still I don't get why having on/kun around would be that much of a problem...
Lost ^^; - RoboTact - 2007-09-05
Readings are a separate endeavor. When you don't know what reconstructed collection of sounds means, there's no point in humming it at all. The only synthesis scenario that makes learning readings _a vehicle for understanding_ is when you simultaneously recreate the reading of compound and guess compound's meaning by components (parts of these processes may be helped by shallow remembering), as a result associating them with each other. Which without a dictionary can be misleading, and dictionary contains compound readings anyway. With modern tools like Rikaichan it even doesn't save time.
Lost ^^; - johnzep - 2007-09-05
I don't think he's flaming you. ^_-
To elaborate a little further..
The book doesn't have readings in volume one...they aren't forgotten...just put off until volume two.
RTK volume one is only about how to write the kanji (and not forget them)...and this site is based on the book...hence the lack of readings.
It separates the tasks for efficiency... According to Heisig, it is more efficient for learning how to write the kanji if you don't worry about the readings....and then later on it is more efficient to learning readings and vocabulary if you can already write and recognize kanji.
Lost ^^; - kireina_yozora - 2007-09-05
I see. Thanks much for the enlightenment johnzep
I'll stick around for a bit to see how this thing works and perhaps get the books. Right now I'm in over my head in 4kyuu kanji learning book aimed at Japanese and can't say I'm enjoying it much.
Lost ^^; - nolusu - 2007-09-05
furyuu_sakura Wrote:I just wanted to know if I can or cannot see the on/kun on the kanji study/review cards on the site.This can be done using firefox and the Rikaichan plugin
http://www.polarcloud.com/rikaichan
Lost ^^; - kireina_yozora - 2007-09-05
Excellent! Thanks a lot XD
Lost ^^; - yukamina - 2007-09-05
Actually, I'd like it if the kanji had readings here too. I'm learning the reading now, so reviewing meaning and reading would be two birds with one stone. Not everyone here is still on RTK1. Oh, well, I don't really use the flash cards on this site, I study vocabulary with mnemosyne.