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+--- Thread: RTK1 almost done...what next?RTK2/compunds?... I'm confused! (/thread-7614.html)
RTK1 almost done...what next?RTK2/compunds?... I'm confused! - al4bandi - 2011-04-05
Hello dear Forum, in forward i want to apologize for my unexperienced English. I didn't knew where i should post this, so i decided on the learning resources.
As this thread title suggests I'm almost done with RTK1 (frame ~1600 until Saturday I'll be done). So i wanted to get advices and suggestions from experienced people with the knowhow of the Japanese language.
First of all i want to tell something about myself. I begun with RTK1 roughly about a year ago, but i worked alongside in the kitchen (apprentice) and my time for the Kanji's was rather limited. I memorized about 700 Kanjis (without the use of this site) and postponed it for a while, due to the fact that my work was literally killing me. In summer vacation i started again,and stopped AGAIN.After almost a 1 year hiatus i begun again *sigh*. Since the last 10 Days( i quited my job due to stress and less spare time) i learned like a maniac, over 5 hours a day, sometimes motivated,sometimes demoralizing. And yesterday i reached this magical borderline, and asked myself how should i continue?
I've found this forum through coincidence, and i want to thank you all in proper politeness...(I've seen many community's but this one is just kickass , apparently for many reasons.)
As my story and life goes one, i played with my thoughts (one might say i'm rather young than old) and decided to study Japanese Studies. But there are still 1-2 Years left, before I'm capable of studying Japanese.Before i begin to study i want to have a big advantage compared to "normal" collegian's. This are the rough informations about me, and i hope this will help you in a few sort of ways.
Now to the "interesting" part.I'm using the German equivalent and DO posses RTK1 & 2 (in German), and to be honest I'd like to stick with it(with the language as learning resource). Now the big question for me is, what should i do: RTK2, learn compunds, learn the readings, i don't know, like the thread title suggests I'm rather confused.
As for my Japanese language skills, my vocabulary is about 500 words big, and I'm more or less acquainted to the かな(Hira/Kata). I'd like to say this about my grammar but i can't. I know the meanings of "no,mae,ni" casual stuff, you hear in every anime/j-dorama. That's it. Sometimes i just know which particle i should insert by feeling.
As for my spare time...hell, i have lots of spare time. My ambitions are likely, to at least learn to read manga's or easy japanese literature in the next 2 month's. And i hope you all can verify that this is possible in 2 month's
.In closing comments, i do know about sites like Tae Kim/Kanji damage, and programs like Anki(though I'm unexperienced with anki), but like i said, i'd rather like to study in German. I'm more accustomed to it(English more or less would just be an evasive and alternate route).
If you have any further questions, for example my bra size (I'm male) or telephone number, please, feel free to ask, I'll answer almost
any question.
RTK1 almost done...what next?RTK2/compunds?... I'm confused! - Tori-kun - 2011-04-05
Well I would just suggest you start doing core2k then. I did the same (also with the german versions). If you open up another deck for Rtk2 as I did you will recognise that a lot of readings will be learnt through core2k and are just the same in RtK2 (pure groups - this chapter is really useful I dare saying!! Do that, in any case. May be hard at the beginning, but as you have plenty of time, get used to it). Have fun!
RTK1 almost done...what next?RTK2/compunds?... I'm confused! - aphasiac - 2011-04-05
Read this thread:
http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=5110
RTK1 almost done...what next?RTK2/compunds?... I'm confused! - shaggadelyc - 2011-04-05
so if you wanna learn the readings explicitly, i suggest doing it the kanji town method (or any method actually that learns readings in groups, i.e. all koo kanji's etc.) combined with rtk2 (look up if pure or not). doesnt take too long, i am currently doing it besides core2k, and i have learned ~half of the compunds. and it really helps you a LOT in memorizing new vocab because you associate meanings to all those shoo koo kyuu sounds.
RTK1 almost done...what next?RTK2/compunds?... I'm confused! - Tzadeck - 2011-04-05
If I were you I would find a good textbook that you can do by yourself. After finishing the textbook I would try Core 2,000 or doing a method of learning readings or something like that.
I think you should learn more of the basics before you concentrate too much on readings. As you learn words in the textbook, learn how they are written in kanji too, since you have done RTK. This will give you an idea of some readings. After you have the basics down you can worry about it more.
RTK1 almost done...what next?RTK2/compunds?... I'm confused! - louischa - 2011-04-05
Opinions vary. IMO, the power of RTK1 comes from divide-and-conquer: focusing on ONE thing at the time (ONE meaning for each kanji), so RTK2 is a natural follow-up: learn ONE reading for each kanji.
I assume you were joking in your post when you wrote that your objective was to read fluently in two months? Learning Japanese is like eating an elephant. You do it one bite at the time, and you need time to digest. Be careful not to get a massive indigestion...
RTK1 almost done...what next?RTK2/compunds?... I'm confused! - Tzadeck - 2011-04-05
I actually didn't notice the 2 months part, haha. Not gonna happen. We should be talking years here rather than months.
Actually, the difficulty in reading manga and easy literature is not kanji, since usually ふりがな will be included. It's vocabulary and grammar.
RTK1 almost done...what next?RTK2/compunds?... I'm confused! - al4bandi - 2011-04-07
Sorry with the late post, i was occupied with some things.
First of all thanks for the link, but as i said, i'd like to study in german
.The part with the 2 months was rather a question, and if it would be possible. The point is, i'm going to invest daily more then 8 hours of time, if it's needed do learn it "faster"(Sure sounds arrogant
) , but fluently not, at least to "decipher" about 1000 kanji in 2 month's. The metaphor with the elephant fitted indeed really well. But now that i realize it, i have to learn grammar, vocabulary, compounds, readings . The interesting part will struck my ego down, as fast as possible :| . For example Tae Kim's grammar Guide. I read through the first few chapters, but since he's using Kanji's i thought it would be better to at least learn the readings, so that i can follow through the whole structure of his guide. But as suggested above me, how do you learn? How do you memorize? If using core2k, are you drilling down the Kanjis until you know it? What were your experiences? Anyhow, I'm going to read through the whole forum after I finished RTK.
If there are critic's and feedback for me, I'd welcome them wholeheartedly.
Thanks in forward.
RTK1 almost done...what next?RTK2/compunds?... I'm confused! - Nagareboshi - 2011-04-07
Try Japanisch im Sauseschritt, or Japanisch mit Manga, both are pretty good from what i have read. Here is a list of german books with reviews. *klick mich* You can try Tae-Kims Grammar Guide since it's free. If you don't have any difficulties with English, why not choose Genki, which i would recommend you to use.
As for learning the readings, learn them in context, it should do. You can learn the "pure groups" with RTK 2 and the so called movie method, mental palace, or how else those methods are called. I guess it's worth the time, and would be a good next step, after finishing RTK 1.
Good luck with your studies.
RTK1 almost done...what next?RTK2/compunds?... I'm confused! - al4bandi - 2011-04-07
Thanks for the early reply.
There is so much stuff,websites,books,learning methods etc going right now through my mind, that i can't even finish the last kanji's. I'm going to deplete eventually -.-.
The most i am lacking right now is a thread, which is guiding me. I had that thread with Heisig and rtk1, but right know i'm just thinking i'm going to drown in this vast ocean of opportunities. I opened this Thread itself, so that i get a more precise answer.
In the end, i think, there won't be a satisfying and fitting answer
.In terms of english knowledge : I don't have that much problems with reading by itself, more in writing "natural". But my primary language is German, I'm "thinking" with it although my parents are from croatian heritage, and my first language was クロアチア語.
(I'm in a whiny mental state, please forgive me :lol: )
RTK1 almost done...what next?RTK2/compunds?... I'm confused! - Nagareboshi - 2011-04-07
I know how you feel.
There is a vast number of books and websites available to choose from. So it is really no wonder that you are lost right now. You are seeking for the best material or way to continue your studies. But there is no best way, there is only a hard path and an easy path, depending on what type of learner you are. And there is no definite answer to the question how you should continue learning. What's worse is that there are no books available, that can teach you everything, or fit all the needs you might have. Since you are having time, give yourself the necessary time to look around the topics in this forum, once you are finished with RTK 1. There is really no need to rush. And you will find the way that is right for you, just don't give up, just because it is not clear how to continue. This is all i can suggest you can do for now.
RTK1 almost done...what next?RTK2/compunds?... I'm confused! - al4bandi - 2011-04-07
Again thanks Naga, makes me feel relieved just reading your post (And of course the sun, i live in Vienna, and the weather is just great).
My personal issue is, that I'm focusing on multiple things. While I'm trying to review the kanjis, every now in a while I'm lurking in the forum.
I'd like to add that i have a book named "Praktische Grammatik der japanischen Sprache" by Martina Ebi, which was really well reviewed . I just don't know where i should begin.
Vocab?Hence learning Kanji's in compounds wouldn't be such a big mess. Or should it be grammar?Readings? There are really great advices here in this community, every one of them has good and bad points about a method/philosophy etc. And none of them is either the "right" nor the "wrong" path.
But right now, i just should focus on my last 500 Kanjis...I see the finishing line, yet I'm occupied with a single tree instead of seeing the whole forest. *inserts curse word*
がんばる に なる な...
RTK1 almost done...what next?RTK2/compunds?... I'm confused! - Tori-kun - 2011-04-07
I had exactly the same feeling: swimming in a vast ocean of ressources. Perhaps even good ressources but everything I did was: "Well perhaps I need it later on. I will bookmark for the time being." That was it and this is also what I regret right now. Why not adding a bunch of the words, f.e. from Erin's Challenge from the vocabulary developement section and closing the gaps (core2k does not contain some words, but on the other hand also a few which are mentioned on this website. Seeing this it's not even MUCH work/THAT much words you would add after all!).
Internet is the biggest distraction, seriously. But using it wisefully it can be the best thing ever. Use it wisely, young padawan!~
RTK1 almost done...what next?RTK2/compunds?... I'm confused! - Kuma01 - 2011-04-07
I'm curious about how you guys use core2k, do you only learn the one vocab word's reading or the entire sentence as a whole? I've been learning all the readings in the sentences but I've noticed that a lot of those words are also part of the core2k so I'm not sure if that's a good idea after all.
RTK1 almost done...what next?RTK2/compunds?... I'm confused! - Nagareboshi - 2011-04-07
al4bandi Wrote:Again thanks Naga, makes me feel relieved just reading your post (And of course the sun, i live in Vienna, and the weather is just great).You are welcome.
al4bandi Wrote:My personal issue is, that I'm focusing on multiple things. While I'm trying to review the kanjis, every now in a while I'm lurking in the forum.Yes this forum is a great place to hang out, so many friendly and helpful members, so much to read, and a plethora of great suggestions and advices for fellow learners. It is also the number one source for wasting away time better spend studying. This is why i gave a warning to new forum members:
Nagareboshi Wrote:"This forum is a great source for fun, encouragement, invaluable advice, and the best community members on the internet. But it is also the number one source for distraction from adding flashcards.
So beware of this forum, ye who cometh after me!"
al4bandi Wrote:I'd like to add that i have a book named "Praktische Grammatik der japanischen Sprache" by Martina Ebi, which was really well reviewed .I read the reviews, seems not all the owners are convinced, that this is a good book for beginners or self learners. Being a script from a university course i tend to agree with this. I wonder if this book has really only 44 pages, or is this just an error?
al4bandi Wrote:I just don't know where i should begin.Find a good book for beginners, preferably with CDs and a workbook, and start to learn. You will not only learn some basic grammar and vocabulary, but you can also work on your reading and listening comprehension. Once you have a good grasp of the basics, and with some readings of kanji in your back presented in your textbook, you can focus to improve in each field: writing, listening, reading, and grammar. Just don't try to do everything at once. I just cant give you any recommendations on books written in our native language. Because the best, or better yet the more descent textbooks, are available only in English. The Dictionary of Basic, Intermediate, Advanced grammar books for instance.
Vocab?Hence learning Kanji's in compounds wouldn't be such a big mess. Or should it be grammar?Readings?
It will take time to get to a level where you can read anything outside your textbook. Even if you do a method like Core2k, meaning studying with SRS / Anki, or if you choose to learn the readings next. I guess a year is a good estimation after which you will really start seeing some progress. And you will have to face many challenges on your way.
You will also look back at the one 木 (き) tree at some point in time, from amidst a 森 (もり) forest of things you will learn. But soon you will be able to leave the 森 to find yourself under sitting idle under a 木 while the 日 (ひ) sun is shining. You can then enjoy the view of the 草地 (くさち ) meadow and the 海洋 (かいよう) ocean of beautiful 花 (はな) flowers, because you know you have made it!
In other words, accept that it will take some time, there is nothing you can do. Not even with 10 hours of sitting up front your desk learning.
al4bandi Wrote:There are really great advices here in this community, every one of them has good and bad points about a method/philosophy etc. And none of them is either the "right" nor the "wrong" path.This is true, follow the advice, and if you've got questions, ask. Everyone here is willing to encourage you, so hang in there, and don't distract yourself too much right now on here. Do learn your daily amount of kanji with RTK, and once you are done, reward yourself with beating some little time here.
But right now, i just should focus on my last 500 Kanjis...I see the finishing line, yet I'm occupied with a single tree instead of seeing the whole forest. *inserts curse word*
がんばる に なる な...
Greetings from Styria on this warm and sunny day.
RTK1 almost done...what next?RTK2/compunds?... I'm confused! - al4bandi - 2011-04-07
al4bandi Wrote:I'd like to add that i have a book named "Praktische Grammatik der japanischen Sprache" by Martina Ebi, which was really well reviewed .
Nagareboshi Wrote:I read the reviews, seems not all the owners are convinced, that this is a good book for beginners or self learners. Being a script from a university course i tend to agree with this. I wonder if this book has really only 44 pages, or is this just an error?.No, it has roughly about 260 pages, i read through the first chapters, caught some words, and its quite good. My perspective right now about the book is rather short sighted, i didn't read the whole ご本.
As for your motivating kanji usage: I'm rather astonished from myself that just by following some Animes/J-TV-Shows/etc i caught some of the readings unconsciously(and guessed most of kanjis right just by looking and them, and joining their meanings), but what frightens me are these small steps i have to take just to get acquainted with the language. I'm following japanese culture since childhood (Takeshi's Castle/Sailor moon etc => laugh at me :lol: ). At least i dont have any problems when japanese People speak, i can follow their conversation's and guess some words :O (at least one advantage
)*big sigh* Anyhow, 120 Kanjis are waiting for me...hope I'll get them in 5hours
Again many many thanks