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I might stop SRSing... - Printable Version

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I might stop SRSing... - Manske - 2011-02-21

...for a few reasons. I have been SRSing vocab for about a year and a half now. I started with Core 2000, then moved on to Core 6000 (finished in April, been reviewing since), and finally on to my own deck consisting of words that I have found "in the wild." To put it simply, I'm just burned out. I don't think I've been doing this correctly, seeing as how I can't produce any of these words. I also feel like I'm placing too much importance in quantity and statistics (number of words, unique kanji, reviews per session etc.) without actually learning. I spend so much time SRSing that I don't feel like reading, playing games, or other fun things in Japanese. I have a bunch of light novels and visual novels downloaded, but I'm just burned out after SRSing. I don't know, I just ***** dread opening Anki everyday to see how many hundreds of cards I have to review, with 25-50 new words on top of that. The words in my own deck range from intermediate to really obscure, and I feel as if my deck is just a huge mess with more uncommon words than common ones. Overall, I haven't really improved over the past year apart from kanji/vocab recognition. Perhaps reading a shitload, learning from authentic material, and trying to communicate with Japanese people rather than placing so much importance into Anki would help me move out of this rut I'm in. Maybe I'm just lazy. Has anyone else ever stopped SRSing?

Below is a card from my own vocab deck
[Image: srsa.jpg]

/rant

I might stop SRSing... - Tzadeck - 2011-02-21

I've pretty much stopped SRSing. I think maybe I feel the same as you, and I should just stop completely. I didn't even make it through Core 6000. I probably only put about 5000 cards in. Even doing just 80 or 90 reviews in a day makes me cringe.

But I passed JLPT2 none the less, and have gotten a lot better at Japanese. Of course, I live in Japan, so I suppose it's easier for me to be exposed to it without needing to do SRS.

I also am fed up with Anki in general. Ever since the new version I haven't been able to get it to work on my Ipod Touch, and it pisses me off in general that I payed so much for a program that is not user friendly at all (It really is the least user friendly program I've paid for since like 1992. The free version for computer, of course, I have no problem with it and I greatly appreciate the effort put in. But as soon as I'm paying for something I expect more).

All of the people I know who are really fluent in Japanese went about it the old school way--classes, textbooks, reading, stuff like that. RTK, however, was a great book and I'm glad I used it.

I might stop SRSing... - Zarxrax - 2011-02-21

It sounds like you are unsure if you should really quit using it or not.

If you are learning a bunch of words that you feel are useless, I would recommend that you suspend those cards and stop reviewing them for now. I would also stop adding any new cards, and just focus on reviewing the old ones. Those 2 things would drastically cut down on the amount of time that you have to spend on the SRS.

You should then have more time to spend actually using Japanese.

Only SRS the stuff that you really need or like. For instance, if you come across a word and think, "man, this is a really useful word, I better remember it!", then that sounds like a good candidate for SRSing.

I might stop SRSing... - Manske - 2011-02-21

Thanks for your input. I think that because the number of reviews has increased so much that I have started to focus more on getting them done as quickly as possible without taking the time to really think about the word and commit it to memory. It frustrates me when I see a card that I should know, but don't remember at all.

I might stop SRSing... - Eastwood - 2011-02-21

While new to this forum, I'm not new to SRSing.

That 564 is pretty daunting.

If you don't like it, don't want it, or don't think it's useful, then get rid of it. Use the delete function! Trim down your decks. Make your life easier. If you aren't having fun doing it, then you should change something.

I'd say getting involved in more everyday Japanese is definitely a step in the right direction. It sounds like you've already got a significant knowledge base with which to work, so use it!

Remember why you got into this in the first place. It was probably so that you could enjoy something in Japanese. So go enjoy it! The SRS should be a compliment to your enjoyment - something that makes enjoyment more possible. If your SRS is taking the fun out of your Japanese learning, then change it so that it's putting the fun back in!

I'd say don't drop the SRS because it is a very valuable tool to have at your disposal. Just change what you're using it for until you think it's useful again.

Edit: Remember, you're involved in self (relevant to you) study, not I've gotta finish these 500 reviews before reading the book/watching the movie I really want to enjoy study. Or, not someone else's regimen or method or program.

I might stop SRSing... - nest0r - 2011-02-21

Tzadeck Wrote:I've pretty much stopped SRSing. I think maybe I feel the same as you, and I should just stop completely. I didn't even make it through Core 6000. I probably only put about 5000 cards in. Even doing just 80 or 90 reviews in a day makes me cringe.

But I passed JLPT2 none the less, and have gotten a lot better at Japanese. Of course, I live in Japan, so I suppose it's easier for me to be exposed to it without needing to do SRS.

I also am fed up with Anki in general. Ever since the new version I haven't been able to get it to work on my Ipod Touch, and it pisses me off in general that I payed so much for a program that is not user friendly at all (It really is the least user friendly program I've paid for since like 1992. The free version for computer, of course, I have no problem with it and I greatly appreciate the effort put in. But as soon as I'm paying for something I expect more).

All of the people I know who are really fluent in Japanese went about it the old school way--classes, textbooks, reading, stuff like that. RTK, however, was a great book and I'm glad I used it.
Unbeliever! Hisssss. Unclean! Unclean!

I might stop SRSing... - ta12121 - 2011-02-21

I've found the srs to be a big help in my acquisition of Japanese so far. But if it's taking all of your time, then I don't think your using it right. But I remember in the beginning it was like this, it took so long. Now, it takes maximum 1hr and 30mins but usual it takes less than 1 hr. Taking in mind, that I spread out my reviews throughout the day. I find that time-boxing works wonders.
Remember, the srs is suppose to supplement your studying, not take most of your time.

I might stop SRSing... - Manske - 2011-02-21

I guess one of my problems is that because of my unfamiliarity with the language, I'm unsure of which words really are useless. Even if I do cut down my list, it will still be hard for me to discipline myself to try to commit those words into memory rather than to recognize the word, hit the Hard button, and then completely forget about it for a few weeks until I see it again. Perhaps SRS isn't for me. Perhaps I'm lazy and just using that as an excuse to get out of having to do boring reviews everyday. I'll sleep on it.

I might stop SRSing... - Eastwood - 2011-02-21

Manske Wrote:
Zarxrax Wrote:
Perhaps I'm lazy and just using that as an excuse to get out of having to do boring reviews everyday. I'll sleep on it.
Sleep on it, but remember: Learning should be fun! It's about you! Enjoy it! Smile

I might stop SRSing... - bodhisamaya - 2011-02-21

SRSing 3,000 kanji to learn one meaning works. Though, I will probably never understand why people SRS a language. Giving equal time to common and rare vocabulary, and doing it out of context to the situation it is used in???
If it is fun for some, that is fine, but it doesn't seem an efficient way to learn a living language.

I might stop SRSing... - Zarxrax - 2011-02-21

bodhisamaya Wrote:SRSing 3,000 kanji to learn one meaning works. Though, I will probably never understand why people SRS a language. Giving equal time to common and rare vocabulary, and doing it out of context to the situation it is used in???
If it is fun for some, that is fine, but it doesn't seem an efficient way to learn a living language.
I think it becomes less and less important as you learn more of the language. When you can take in lots of material each day, then you are getting lots of "reviews" just in your daily life. But when you are still struggling with getting to that point, maybe you can read a couple of pages of manga each day, or read 1 or 2 emails from Japanese friends. When you are at a low level like this, you can't take in enough information just from normal consumption each day. It's this situation in which the SRS is most helpful, I think.

I might stop SRSing... - wccrawford - 2011-02-21

I've come to the conclusion that SRS'ing was never a good fit for me... At least not yet.

At first, learning lots of vocab was easy from lists. SRS'ing them didn't make much sense because they were easy words and I'll see them a lot.

Later, learning vocab from lists wasn't as good, but I could read instead. And finding new words while reading and looking them up in the dictionary made them stick pretty good.

Now, learning from lists is about pointless. I can read well enough that I usually don't bother with a dictionary because I'd rather have fun. The ones I DO look up usually stick really well.

I've considered SRS'ing the new vocab I find, but the time it'll take to actually enter them is a problem... And I'm still not convinced that SRS'ing is worth the time spent. If I don't see a word that much, it probably isn't worth remembering... At least not yet.

I might stop SRSing... - vinniram - 2011-02-21

Just finished doing 200 reviews and about to go through 200 new cards right now Tongue I do get a bit sick of SRSing, but I just ramped it up during my holidays. I'm going to just keep up with reviews now, and tone back adding too many cards.

I might stop SRSing... - wildweathel - 2011-02-21

SRS is not a tool for testing yourself.

SRS is a tool for managing Points of Memory: testing those PoM's against your brain, keeping what sticks and pruning what doesn't. Your brain will tell you what is useful by remembering it and what is not by forgetting.

Leech threshold to 3. No more than 300 reviews a day, but do review every day. No more than 30 minutes. No new cards. Do spend time with fun input.

Do not feel bad with every "leech suspended" message. Every single one is a win: you're pruning the 10%-20% that makes you hate SRS and activates the powerful Anti-Inefficiency-System of your brain, which less creative and more masochistic people call "laziness."

Do this for two weeks and you'll gain a much healthier perspective.

Best luck.

I might stop SRSing... - kazelee - 2011-02-21

@manske

The problem isn't SRS. The problem is the huge quantity of words you are SRSing.

25-50 new cards A DAY!!!?

That'll fatigue you, no matter who you are. Stop all new cards. NOW. Do only 50 to 100 reviews per day. When anki starts giving you intervals of 1-5 years and you have no reviews left, then you start adding more.

You can't cram a language. Believe me, I tried. I was a 75 new words a day GANGSTA! Till I burned out.

Don't quit SRSing entirely. Just take the time to master the words already learned. This will give you room to explore other options as well.

I might stop SRSing... - resolve - 2011-02-22

To the OP:

- where did 色彩 come from? Did you encounter it in the wild, or is it from a word list? If you saw it in the wild, have you seen it again since? Do you think it's an important word? Do you remember the context you found it in? Do you have any emotional attachment to the word?
- the definition looks like it's lifted from edict. Edict can be useful for giving you a hint about a meaning after seeing a word in context, but taken alone, "it could be colour, it could be hue, it could be tints" is not very useful at all. Trying to memorize such vague definitions is a recipe for frustration
- you said you feel overloaded, yet you're still studying new cards - turn them off until you get things under control, and become more liberal with the delete key. AJATT's advice here is good.

tzadeck: I'm glad you're happy with the desktop, as without the mobile client I wouldn't be able to afford to work on it. Please try to remember that my time is divided between the different clients, and the mobile client is pretty new. I'm not aware of any outstanding issues which would prevent you from using the latest version, so if you need help, please put something on the issue tracker.

I might stop SRSing... - astendra - 2011-02-22

I dunno, I use the SRS mostly as a primer/safety net. I don't think it's supposed to teach you exactly how to use every single word you enter, but it's very useful for getting the gist of a couple thousand words asap. Maybe it's just me, but reading and making three dictionary lookups a sentence is pretty 面倒くさい, and I'm glad to be rid of it. Furthermore, if you don't have a lot of time to get exposure one day I figure the SRS is nice for its time-efficiency. That's why it's good to have a habit of doing your reviews; it'll be the "minimum" you do and it's harder to fall off track.

Other than that, what everybody else said. Stop adding new cards and use a lower leech threshold Tongue

I might stop SRSing... - juniperpansy - 2011-02-22

Be more varied in your studies...
For example these days i only add 3 new sentences to my sentence/vocab deck a day. Any more would make me crazy.

I use subs2srs on my favorite media (for listening). IT IS NOT WORK!!! IT IS FUN!! !! Smile

And then sometimes talk with Japanese firends / watch Japanese movies whatever.

To be honest I think most of the time when I first hear a vocab from my sentence deck in real-world Japanese, I don't recognize it (although I recognize that I probably do know the word... I just can't place it). But once I do look up that word then it becomes very easy to remember.

I think your problem is that you just WAAAY to heavy on your vocab. Be more balanced. Dammit read the alljapaneseallthetime website. That is all the motivation/tools I needed to be studying Japanese for almost 2 years now 30min-2hours every single day.

I might stop SRSing... - zachandhobbes - 2011-02-22

If you're using your SRS for your primary thingy I think you're doing it wrong.

While Core 6000 can be VERY useful from what I hear, I think the best way is once you've got some basics (maybe the first few hundred of Core 6000) you should just start getting sentences from movies, anime, books, manga that you read. I think that would be much more enjoyable and a good way to spend your time. SRS should be secondary.

I might stop SRSing... - kainzero - 2011-02-22

Well, first of all, decide if production is a priority for you. If you're making recognition decks and frustrated that you can't produce, well, that's why.
Personally, although I write every once in a while on Lang-8, production isn't too important to me for now. Understanding the masses of material available to me seems more important, it's more entertaining, and gets me JLPT certification to help me if I need to look for a job.

As for SRS, I often divide my time into intense study and just plain entertainment, sometimes even with the same material. For example, I picked up the novel Moshidora and I've entered a few sentences into SRS... which I'll do when I just really really want to understand it and take my time and methodically go through each word I don't know. Sometimes, I just blast right through it even if I only really understand every 3 sentences, because stopping to look up stuff on dictionaries (conventional or grammar), putting it into SRS, and then testing myself might be a pain.

That healthy balance of entertainment vs. study has what kept me going. Sometimes study helps me enjoy things more. Sometimes enjoying things is what motivates me to study.

I might stop SRSing... - caivano - 2011-02-22

Without knowing your learning goals it's difficult to give advice but you should at least
- suspend any cards you keep failing
- delete any cards you think are useless
- read / listen to a load of Japanese - when you see/hear a word you just srs'd it'll motivate you. plus it's like reviewing in anki (but better).
- try to add only easy cards and essential cards. for me the word on your card above is neither so I wouldn't bother. In the future there will probably be a time when it is an easy card to learn so I'll do it then.

I think it's your deck that's failing rather than anki, but if you wanna sack it off completely just do it, plenty of people learn just fine without srs.

I might stop SRSing... - Tzadeck - 2011-02-22

resolve Wrote:tzadeck: I'm glad you're happy with the desktop, as without the mobile client I wouldn't be able to afford to work on it. Please try to remember that my time is divided between the different clients, and the mobile client is pretty new. I'm not aware of any outstanding issues which would prevent you from using the latest version, so if you need help, please put something on the issue tracker.
I probably came off a bit harsher than needed, as I'm probably mixing my frustration with SRSing with Anki itself.

I'm going to fool around with it a bit more, and if it still doesn't work I'll do that. I'd have more patience with it if I wasn't so busy lately.

I might stop SRSing... - sethg - 2011-02-22

Yeah, I think the issue is a lack of fun and too many reviews.

Your actual immersion should take up more time than reviews. Reviews, for me, are just something I do when I'm between other things. I do little 10 card sprints.

I'd immediately stop reviewing any cards that you, yourself, didn't create. Half the reason I can keep reviewing is that a card will often bring back a funny memory associated with when I added it. Using some pre-made deck without any real-life context is just masochistic to me.

And, of course, don't be afraid to delete cards! If a card has a bad memory... if you have some aversion to a card, just kill it! Only review what is fun.

Try to treat the SRS like a handy tool... not this magical thing that will put a language into your head. That's the media Big Grin

I might stop SRSing... - iSoron - 2011-02-22

kazelee Wrote:25-50 new cards A DAY!!!? That'll fatigue you, no matter who you are.
I did 40 new cards a day for many months. No problem whatsoever.

wccrawford Wrote:And I'm still not convinced that SRS'ing is worth the time spent. If I don't see a word that much, it probably isn't worth remembering...
As I said in a previous thread, most verbs and nouns appear only once or twice in a typical light novel series. You could conclude that most words are not worth remembering.

I might stop SRSing... - Nagareboshi - 2011-02-22

Thanks a million for this thread. I have not read all of it, but what i read, gave me a new perspective on vocab and SRS. I am currently learning with Genki 2 and there is a whole bunch of words that i might likely never see, hear, or need to remember beyond the textbook again. But i was giving myself a hard time trying to remember stuff like 奨学金 or 卒業式. Yet they are in my SRS and i would have to review them.

I guess i might just as well suspend those cards or sort them out when they come up next time, instead of trying to force myself to remember any of those. There are plenty of other words that might indeed be useful 予約する，下ろす、絵 stuff like that. Where is the fun when i try to remember random vocab that doesn't seem to stick? Just to have more vocab i eventually could use? I guess not. But i would never stop to use SRS now that i know how this is helping me.