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+--- Thread: What should I do now? (/thread-721.html)
What should I do now? - kaworu1986 - 2007-08-21
I have started using Heisig's book almost two years ago but have only studied around 1500 kanjis so far (I only manage to clear 10 per hour and try to spend a couple of hours a day doing it but often can't).
I used to wait until I studied a hundred new kanjis before adding them to the system and review them: this worked well at first, when I could brute force my way through all the ones I studied in reasonable time, but less and less so as time went on.
Now I'm going for a general revision (just got to 1500) and my recall rate is abysmal (less than 50% so far): how do you suggest I should recover from this situation (and possibly get to the point where I can revise the correct way)?
So far I have 59 failed kanji and 1396 expired ones.
What should I do now? - johnzep - 2007-08-21
Maybe I would try to clear the expired cards as quickly as possible (letting the failed cards stack up if necessary).
I figure by clearing the expired cards you can filter out the ones you still remember. And even if you only remember 50%, it will move 700 cards through the system.
After clearing your expired cards, then I would start adding the failed cards and trying to keep up with reviews everyday.
Then after the failed cards are clear, you can start adding new cards.
I think the way you added cards before is problematic. you shouldn't study hundreds of cards in the book and then add them in bulk to the webpage. And 10 kanji an hour seems a little slow. I would try to spend a minute thinking of a story, maybe a minute visualizing the story, and a few seconds write the kanji a couple times while saying the story to yourself.
I add kanji to the site in batches of 25.
I study 25 kanji....take a break....add the kanji...check the kanji. Then if I want to study more, I do more batches of 25 kanji.
What should I do now? - wrightak - 2007-08-21
10 kanji an hour sounds pretty slow, what exactly do you do during that hour?
If you're doing 10 kanji a day or less and you only review once you've done 100 then when you review, you're testing yourself on kanji that you haven't seen in 10 days. I think you need to review every day, using whatever method (this site, other software, pen and paper). That's true even if you only cover three kanji in the day.
I think your first priority needs to be to learn the 1500 that you've already done before you go any further. If you fail a kanji when reviewing, stop, concentrate on improving the story and do whatever it takes to learn it before you go on to the next kanji. I know how tempting it is to just want to move on but Heisig's approach needs to be cumulative.
I've had a few moments like this myself, so I can sympathise. Hope what I've suggested helps.
What should I do now? - kaworu1986 - 2007-08-21
I do my best to follow the steps outlined in the book: read the keyword, from time to time look it up on a dictionary (I need to do this more and more lately), try to come up with a story that both uses the primitives and makes sense (I found out I usually get the best results when the story approximates a definition of the keyword, so that's what I usually aim for) and try to visualize it.
These two last steps are becoming more difficult lately: I find myself closing my eyes to come up with something and ending up drifting away to unrelated thoughts or just dozing off too many times.
What should I do now? - CharleyGarrett - 2007-08-21
I would imagine that the stories that you're selecting to use are too mundane....not unusual enough to be memorable. We plow thru so much of our day with things going along as usual, normal, and then we can't remember what we ate for breakfast. It is the things that are shocking, crazy, out of whack, that are memorable. Try reading over some of the stories that folks have shared, and you'll start to see things that may be a bit bizarre, but are memorable connnections to the primatives, triggered by the keyword. When it's right, it really does work very fast, and surprisingly consistently.
What should I do now? - ファブリス - 2007-08-21
I spent sometimes up to 1h30 on 10 kanji during the second half of the book. If you create good images during this time it is time well spent.
What should I do now? - RoboTact - 2007-08-21
Add all kanji you learn in a single batch, be it 5 or 100. Review them starting from the next day (no point in reviewing them immediately, you just saw them). Keep expired cards at zero. To recover from heaps of expired cards, write down the amount of expired cards every day, and target to lower this amount by 30-100 each day. I usually review in small uninterrupted batches of 20 to 40 interlaced with watching video or reading something. It usually takes an hour to review 100 cards this way, but it's more fun. Reviewing should be fast. If you don't recall a card for too long (like 15 seconds), just fail it, it will improve overall time in the long run.
What should I do now? - decamer0n - 2007-08-21
just a comment on stories and retention rate.
many people insist that the stories must be really crazy, bizzare, etc. to stick in your memory. people often equate bizzare with memorable. and though certainly everyone's memory works a little differently, and tends to naturally build associations around different things, i find that in my case this need for oddity is not the case at all.
except the kanji in which i have to make a strange story line to fit all the primitives in together (which is less often than one might think, if one is clever at it), my stories are generally very straightforward, mundane, and always attempt to capture the essence of the meaning in the image itself. unless both the meaning and the primitives really lead naturally to an association with sex or violence, i also try to avoid relying on these as props.
even though my stories intentionally avoid sensationalism, i have finished RTK1, i have 1800 kanji in my fourth box (only 1 month after finishing the book), and my daily reviews are now consistently around 90% at a review rate of about 70 kanji per day. further, i think that because my stories really focus on capturing the essence of the kanji meaning, i rarely have much trouble going the other direction from kanji to keyword without any drilling. as heisig suggested, it has taken care of itself.
i think there are two true keys to getting your retention up to 90%. the first is the quality of your stories and images. and the second is consistently following the spaced repetitions.
as far as quality of stories and images goes, don't just make your stories sensational. make your stories work within your pre-existing network of associations as much as possible. this means for me that i often draw upon greek or biblical mythology for some of my stories, or movies that i am particularly fond of. and sometimes sex or violence too. but really, try to let the stories bubble up naturally if possible. they will be much stronger. gather up the primitives in your mental visual space, focus on that for a while, and see what they do. don't be afraid to give it a little time. then, when you have a story, the key to burning it into your memory is to visualize it vividly and in great detail. that doesn't necessarily mean adding extra blood. it means seeing the colors, positions, textures, background locations, possibly sound and smell, etc. just be careful when visualizing details that you don't accidentally slip an extra primitive in there.
as for spaced repetition, don't drill constantly, but don't ignore your expired cards either. clearing out expired cards is especially critical in those first 2 boxes. if you put them off for a week, you have totally blown the time-frame of those repetitions at a critical stage of working them into long term memory. so, i really reccomend that you add cards the same day you make the stories. then review those blue cards the following day. then always stay on top of your expired cards as scheduled. don't fall behind especially in the first 2 boxes. spaced repetition works well if you have faith in it and keep to its schedule.
of course, if you fall way behind, then you need to devise a special plan to recover. but try to make sure that plan places staying on schedule with the first 2 boxes as a high priority.
What should I do now? - stephjapan2004 - 2007-08-22
I often set a 20 minute time limit on each session. How many new kanji can I learn in 20 minutes? This keeps my mind focused on kanji. If I study for an extended time, often I cannot recall the kanji I have learnt, so it is not really effective.
After 20 minutes, I have a break, do somethng else for a few minutes.
Then I can do another 20 minutes of kanji with a fresh, alert mind if I want to.