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Proficiency tests - darg_sama - 2006-07-03

So has anyone either taken or looking to take any proficiency tests for Japanese?

I've taken JLPT（日本語能力試験） a couple times and have thought about trying my hand at 漢検（漢字検定）. I'd think that kanken would be right up the alley of a bunch of people here since it's all about the kanji!Wink

Someone recently told me that you can actually take kanken in the US if you're in certain cities (like LA). I already knew that about the JLPT, but not kanken. For those who know more about it, what would be a good level of kanken to start out with for someone who's completed Heisig 1+2? What level of grammatical knowledge do they expect?

Oh, and if anyone's studying up for JLPT, you have to look into the 完全マスター series of books. I've used them for 2kyuu and 1kyuu and they are absolutely phenominal. They have grammar and vocab/kanji books.

Proficiency tests - yorkii - 2006-07-03

i can also vouch for the Master series books. i am currently using the 3級　book to brush up on my grammar for the test in December. As for the kanken... u should check out books that help you revise for the tests. i went to the big bookstore in Shinjuku at the weekend to look at some books. i looked at the kanken books while i was there and the tests go from 6 (the easiest) to 1 (the hardest). if you have finished JLPT 1級　im sure you should be able to pass at least the first kanken..

yorkii

Proficiency tests - synewave - 2006-07-03

I took 漢検８級 at the start of the year. This corresponds to the kanji that an elementary school student has been taught up to the end of 3rd grade. The tests even go as low as １０級 I think, i.e. elementary school grade 1 kanji.

When I took the 漢字検定 that was prior to starting with Heisig. After I finish RTK2 I'm going to dip back into 漢検 at 5級. As far as the kanji goes, that won't be the problem. I think that vocab is going to be the issue. That said if you're going for JLPT 1級 then I reckon that 5級 would be a good place to start. Just my opinion. Although the kids I teach say for them, anything below 5 is meaningless.

Just to let you gauge my level, I work at a Japanese JHS, I'm going to try 2級 at the end of the year. I'Ve been in Japan for 3 years already but my work ethic, prior to finding Heisig, was pretty poor!

In the test, there are various types of questions, e.g. writing kanji, writing the readings, kun/on yomi questions. As I mentioned above, I think the difficulty will be coming to a question (they are all short sentences), likely being able to write the kanji they are after, but just not knowing the word. Therefore being unable to write the correct character.

Proficiency tests - darg_sama - 2006-07-04

Ok, 5級 sounds like a decent place to start off then. I found a table of kanken levels for those interested, as well as this site which lets you practice for it online a little. You have to be able to write the kanji for the actual test, right?

5級 is the last level before you hit the middle school characters - accounts for 1006 kanji apparently. And you're right - I did some practice questions and had the most problems with the 対義語/類義語(antonym/synonym), 四字熟語, and 熟語の構成 sections. The 音/訓読み sections were fairly simple, but if they asked the names of the 部首 I'd be screwed - I know enough to pick them out in multiple choice. Wink

I tried the 4級（中1、1322字） out as well, but I think that would be a tad ambitious for me at this point because of all the vocab involved.

Anyone do any other tests? I forget what they renamed it, but there's that JETRO test as well, and there's always the JLPT.

Proficiency tests - synewave - 2006-07-04

Yeah, 漢検 ain't no JLPT marksheet type thing. You have to write both kanji for some questions and hiragana for others. Let us know how you get on...

Proficiency tests - sweetneet - 2006-08-11

just wondering if anyone out there taking JLPT in the US this year? I just signed up to take the Level 2 exam in New York. I haven't finished RTK Vol. 1 yet (i'm around 1500) but I just hope to finish it soon (within a month or so). Now the part that scares me about Level 2 is the vocab/kanji compounds, plus knowing all the on-yomi and kun-yomi. I have the flashcards from white-rabbit press, and they seem to help a bit. But the problem is (as I"m sure some of u who are studying for the JLPT have experienced) that if you haven't finished RTK Vol. 1 it's hard to learn some of the kanji in there that you haven't yet covered in Heisig's book. It's a tad frustrating since I'm only going for Level 2 I actually don't have to learn all the jouyou kanji so soon...but, as I imagine Level 2 is only a stepping stone to Level 1, I might as well learn all the jouyou kanji anyway...(gaman sinakereba...)

Anyway, i'd appreciate any suggestions for studying for JLPT level 2...i know that i will have to finish Vol.1 before beginning any major study..otherwise i will keep screwing up on the kanji that i haven't covered yet (now that I know the "Heisig way" of memorizing kanji, I can't learn kanji any other way!) I bought Vol. 2, but haven't really gone through it..how helpful is it for the JLPT? I might just go straight to the white rabbit flashcards if i'm pressed for time. Smile

Proficiency tests - Matthew - 2006-08-12

I'll be taking 1級 this year. (I've already passed 2級)

I second the recommendation for the 完全マスター series. Especially the grammar book. Also, the most challenging part (and the most heavily weighted) is the reading. Be sure to work on your reading speed and comprehension as much as possible. You'll need to be able to read FAST in order to finish the test on time.

Proficiency tests - Hyland1 - 2006-09-17

I love the heisig books, however if you are studying for the Nihongo Shiken I think they actually do more harm than good. Let me rephrase that; the first book in the series only focuses on writing (which I'm fine with) but writing isn't necessary at all for the kentei so your study could be better spent else where. Thats my opinion. I passed 1級 three years ago and live and work in Japan but the Kanji test still seems really hard. Best of luck

Proficiency tests - JimmySeal - 2006-09-18

Why do people keep calling it "nihongo kentei" or even, "the kentei?"

I found that RTK helped me tremendously on the JLPT. If you're going for level 1 or 2 you're going to need a large number of kanji firmly within your grasp. Probably not so useful for 3 or 4. Even in those cases, I wouldn't say more harm than good as long as you go all the way through the book and non't neglect to study the readings when you're done.

For me, I forsee the kanji section on level 1 being easier than reading or grammar.

Proficiency tests - Hyland1 - 2006-09-19

I guess I should state my opinion a bit more fully. I, and the many other foreigners who specialize in Japanese translation/interpretation have a solid grasp of the kanji. However some of those same people would do very very poorly if you asked them to write the kanji the way many people who participate on this website do. Probably more poorly than people who have never even taken the test. Why? Because the necessary skill set for the test and for life in Japan are completely (ok, very) different. You very rarely need to write kanji in a Japanese office. Moreover, the constant computer/cell phone mail use is crippling to your ability to write Japanese. So, to be more specific, if your goal is to A) pass the proficiency test and B) do so in the shortest amount of time possible then Heisig is not the way to go. What to do? Don't study Japanese, study for the test. I used to teach standardized test prep courses in the states and that is the golden rule.JAPANESE AND THE JLPT ARE TWO VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.
On the test I don't care if you know the answer, I only care that you get it right. So if a question asks you to pick out a specific kanji in lineup it doesn't matter whether or not you know how to write the kanji, the stroke order or the meaning (which as you have seen in other threads, are often misleading anyways). You need to know how the test is going to try and trick you, what they want to test you on, etc. How to do that? Buy a grammar guide and kanji guide designed for the test, and then take as many practice tests as you can, reviewing what you missed. Start looking for patterns, and keep slogging through.
This is getting pretty long but let me finish by saying that I don't recommend the above study pattern for people who want to enjoy studying Japanese and learn it to the fullest. It is simply a guide for studying to pass the test.Take your time, use heisig and really get to know the kanji. Use the language tests as a goal to tighten up your study but remember that they have very little connection to "real-world japanese". For Americans, think of the Japanese language test like a driver's license test; A lot of people pass but that doesn't mean you'd necessarily want to get in the car with them.

Proficiency tests - distefam - 2006-10-04

Hyland1: Thank your for your insight. I've been studying Japanese on my own for several months now and I wanted to prove my progress by taking the JLPT level 4. I am not finished with RTK Vol. 1 yet and learning the required kanji for the test when I haven't gotten to them in the book is very disconcerting.

I agree with your comments on test preparation also, I just took the SAT and I can confirm that you can get a good score on a standardized test and not really *comprehend* the material.

Your post reminded me that the reason I started learning Japanese was for my own interests, and it has inspired me to continue studying with the methods I have been instead of simply preparing for a test. We already have a structured way of learning in our education system which clearly doesn't inspire one, why bring it to self study and spoil the real reason most of us are studying, for our own interests. Anyway, I'm getting a bit winded so I'll stop, but thank you.

Proficiency tests - Mighty_Matt - 2006-10-04

I recently found some word lists that were for the JPLT4 and am planning on using them to learn from, purely because they're obviously useful/frequent words and so good for a beginner like me. As for actually taking the test, I've heard before how 'standardised' the test is and so I'm not planning on taking it anytime soon. I'm more likely to take the test when I don't really need to study for it, just to get the piece of paper.

For now I'm just doing my own learning out of a few books and off a few websites...

Proficiency tests - JimmySeal - 2006-10-05

Mighty_Matt Wrote:As for actually taking the test, I've heard before how 'standardised' the test is and so I'm not planning on taking it anytime soon.
The JLPT isn't standardized. How standardized did you hear it was?

Proficiency tests - synewave - 2006-10-05

I would say the JLPT can be worth taking becuase it can motivate you to do some study. I'm a bit of a lazy one so I like to have definite goals to work towards. Getting through RTK1 is definitely one of those.

If you can be motivated enough and don't have much of a need to actually be holding a scrap of paper saying you're Japanese is of a certain level then there's nothing that says learners of Japanese should take the JLPT.

JimmySeal Wrote:MightyMatt wrote: As for actually taking the test, I've heard before how 'standardised' the test is and so I'm not planning on taking it anytime soon.

The JLPT isn't standardized. How standardized did you hear it was?
Perhaps we have different definitions of a standardized test but the JLPT seems to me to be a typical example. Everyone is asked the same questions, marks the mark sheet, then if you get over a certain score, you pass. That to me is a standardized test.

Edit: Just checked wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standardized_test and there appears to be 2 types of standardized tests. Perhaps we're talking apples and oranges. To be clear, according to wikipedia the JLPT is a Criterion-referenced standardized test.

Being standardized doesn't make it good or bad. As far as learning Japanese is concerened if the JLPT motivates you, I think it is a good thing.

Proficiency tests - leosmith - 2006-10-05

Hyland1 Wrote:I love the heisig books, however if you are studying for the Nihongo Kentei I think they actually do more harm than good.
Hyland1, you are confusing. The Kanji Kentei is a tough kanji test
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanji_kentei
Among other things it requires you to write kanji. Level 1 on the kentei requires knowledge of 6000 characters.

The JLPT is the test I assume you keep referring to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JLPT
Thank you for keeping this straight.

Proficiency tests - JimmySeal - 2006-10-09

synewave Wrote:Perhaps we have different definitions of a standardized test but the JLPT seems to me to be a typical example. Everyone is asked the same questions, marks the mark sheet, then if you get over a certain score, you pass. That to me is a standardized test.
By that definition, wouldn't almost any test be a standardized test?

JLPT doesn't fit the definition of a Criterion-referenced standardized test very well, either. Last year's giant shift in the scoring distribution demonstrates that the test-makers failed in creating a test that's consistent in measuring the same level of ability from year to year, so unless you want to make the claim that the JLPT has different skill criteria every year, the test fails this categorization.

As a side note the quintessential standardized test, the SAT, doesn't ask all test-takers the same questions, and doesn't have a passing score. And it's scored on a normal distribution, which only makes sense for a multiple-choice test with that many applicants.

Proficiency tests - Hyland1 - 2006-10-10

leosmith Wrote:
Hyland1 Wrote:I love the heisig books, however if you are studying for the Nihongo Kentei I think they actually do more harm than good.
Hyland1, you are confusing.
Am I confusing you or am I confused? Your confused expression has confused me. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Yes, I did put kentei where I should of put shiken. My most humble apologies, I will go back and edit my post. For the record the english language test here is called "Eiken" and most Japanese, not knowing the proper name for the Japanese test call it the Nihongo Kentei and would never confuse (or confusing, or whatever word you want to use) with the Kanji Kentei. However, that is just an excuse and I promise to be more careful in the future.申し訳御座いませんでした。

Proficiency tests - leosmith - 2006-10-10

Hyland1 Wrote:申し訳御座いませんでした。
いいえ、いいえ、此方こそう。悪い冗談でしたからどうも失礼します。

Proficiency tests - JimmySeal - 2006-10-10

Hyland1 Wrote:most Japanese, not knowing the proper name for the Japanese test call it the Nihongo Kentei and would never confuse (or confusing, or whatever word you want to use) with the Kanji Kentei.
I can vouch for that. I never hesitate to correct them either. I have a lot of exchanges like this　(in Japanese, not English):

Me: I'm taking the nihongo nouryoku shiken this year.
Japanese person: The nihongo kentei?? Sugoi.