vonPeterhof Wrote:When I began learning English I never really set out to deliberately develop translation skills, but what I noticed is that getting lots of feedback is a very good way to improve those skills. In my class we used to have an exercise where everyone would translate the same magazine article from English into Russian and then we would compare our translations and discuss ways to improve them. This helped me notice many common mistakes and recurring problems early on and deal with them. For example, I realized that my translations often had phrases that were very good approximations of the original English phrases, but sounded completely unnatural in Russian. If you don't notice such phrases and never have anyone point them out to you they tend to lead to bad habits that are hard to get rid of.

So I guess bouncing your translating ideas off fellow students of Japanese could be beneficial to your translation skills. You could even ask your friends who aren't studying Japanese whether or not your translations sound natural. But, as I said, I am not that into translation, so there may be better methods that I am not aware of. I do agree that "just learn Japanese" is poor advice, since translation is a very specific skill that is only partially dependent on your fluency in the target language.

Ryuujin27 Wrote:You're going to hate me... but translate more. Just keep doing it and doing it. I wouldn't say this, particularly after your warning not to, but it's true. It's how I improved my translation skills.

I was at a point in Japanese where I was completely comfortable to do most things, but when I had to translate (spoken or written), I stumbled around and took some time. Now, after translating a bunch, that doesn't happen anymore.

How to be a good translator? That really depends on your English background. If it is strong, you will be able to translate well. I use to write short-stories and novels in English, so I like to think I can write good prose, but that's just me. Though this is important so you don't translate only to have spelling or grammatical errors in your English.

Ryuujin27 Wrote:You could always join a translation group and translate anime/manga/light novels/VNs, etc. That way the "fans" will rate your translations and you'll know where you need improvement.

Be warned though, this isn't for the faint of heart. People are mean when they are behind an anonymous title.

yudantaiteki Wrote:I did some fan translations a while back; the fans don't know any Japanese so can't really rate your translation ability, just your English grammar.

jorrebenst Wrote:Just keep in mind that translation is one of the toughest stuff on earth. Especially with languages as different as Indo-European and Japanese.
Le Ton beau de Marot is a book that is specifically about translation, Written by Douglas Hofstadter, famous for his "Gödel, Escher, Bach". Didn't read it myself, but It's definitely on my reading list. He considers it his own masterpiece.
But let the title itself be an exercise on translation, lol, if you speak some french to see the play of words. This one simple sentence is nearly impossible to translate, and french and english are even closely related!

So I'd just say: A)learn to really appreciate the incredible subtlety of translation
B) Study translations that are known to be good (like the french translation of above-mentioned GEB, it has won prizes. Yes, there are prizes for translations.) Really study them, and try to see what makes them good translations.
and C) read a lot of literature and poetry. To really get a feel for the flow of prose, both in your target and source language.

I'd say good luck on your travels in one of the hardest but most rewarding trades in the world!
Cheers

Jorre

Javizy Wrote:My Chinese friend is studying translation at a Japanese university, so there must be a way to study it formally. I've been meaning to ask her more about it actually. There must be some books on the topic on Amazon or something.

Anyway, the recognition-production gap still exists in your native language, just like it does in Japanese. Sure you're at "native level", but can you whip out a presidential speech whenever you feel like it without hours of careful preparation? Oxford and Cambridge keep putting out thesauri, so people must be using them.

What point am I making? Your ability to translate probably depends just as much on your ability in the field of the text as it does on your ability to understand Japanese. I can comfortably read articles from the Guardian and John Grisham novels, but I suck at journalism and creative prose, so it's unlikely that I'm going to be able to translate Japanese news and novels without a fair bit of practice writing in English first, no matter how well I can understand them.

If you're looking to do it as a career, and already have some idea of the area you'd like to go into, then maybe you could start a blog in English to practise some writing to give yourself the background Ryuujin27 was talking about.

Edit: A Course on Japanese Translation could be interesting. It considers J-E/E-J issues, rather than generally discussing the topic of translation itself.

ta12121 Wrote:

Javizy Wrote:...

I do know that the text one translates is easier when the person has a knowledge of that specific field. So if I'm studying chemistry for example, translating text relating to that can help me out. But topics on journalism, speeches, etc. Would take huge preparation to do right. I know right know I should start out small and work my way up. Personally I've yet to decide on a specific field to do full-time. Translation is something I'm doing now so I can get it up to a high level as I keep improving in Japanese and eventually decide on a field.

jorrebenst Wrote:

ta12121 Wrote:

Javizy Wrote:...

I do know that the text one translates is easier when the person has a knowledge of that specific field. So if I'm studying chemistry for example, translating text relating to that can help me out. But topics on journalism, speeches, etc. Would take huge preparation to do right. I know right know I should start out small and work my way up. Personally I've yet to decide on a specific field to do full-time. Translation is something I'm doing now so I can get it up to a high level as I keep improving in Japanese and eventually decide on a field.

Yups, that is essential too. To return to my "favorite" book*, GEB, again: the Japanese translation was done by a team of two major science professors and a linguist. Supposedly a very good translation too. The translators said that they could never completely translate all the puns and word plays in the book, but they promised that they added at least as many to keep the original number the same, haha.

*Definitely not my real favorite book, but it's a very nice example of something that has been deemed untranslatable on release, but has been successfully and award-winningly been translated in dozens of languages, including Chinese and Japanese, and most west-European languages.

ta12121 Wrote:

Ryuujin27 Wrote:You could always join a translation group and translate anime/manga/light novels/VNs, etc. That way the "fans" will rate your translations and you'll know where you need improvement.

Be warned though, this isn't for the faint of heart. People are mean when they are behind an anonymous title.

I was thinking of joining one this year. As for the criticisms I've heard there pretty mean(or should I say crazy at times). I can handle the critics, I've had my fair of criticism in my life. The internet is the internet,so I don't really take any offense from it

Hashiriya Wrote:If you don't know the difference between "there", "their", and "they're" you might as well give up now. Just kidding of course!