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+--- Thread: 2011 JLPT study thread (/thread-6834.html)
2011 JLPT study thread - kusterdu - 2012-02-25
nadiatims Wrote:in other words it's only 55.55%. In a test where you'll get 25% just by guessing, so to grab that extra 30% and pass you only need to correct about the remaining 75% of the test less than half the time.60% of the time, it works every time.
2011 JLPT study thread - jankensan - 2012-02-25
and yet, only 39% of candidates pass. must be a bit trickier than monkey's choice eh?
2011 JLPT study thread - nadiatims - 2012-02-25
yeah, because a lot of people take it well before they're ready I guess, or they just perform badly on the day for whatever reason. My point was that the real pass mark seems to be less than 50 percent when you factor in that it's multiple choice.
Poorly designed test imo.
2011 JLPT study thread - kainzero - 2012-02-25
if i'm not mistaken, the questions are weighted based on how many people pass them so it's not just a straight one-to-one. it better be like that because otherwise i don't see why it would take them 2 months to put the scantrons through the machine.
2011 JLPT study thread - Fillanzea - 2012-02-25
I wonder if it's not intentional that the number correct you need to pass is so low; didn't they say that they were redesigning level 1 so it wouldn't be any harder to pass, but there would be more extra room at the top to really challenge your abilities?
2011 JLPT study thread - nadiatims - 2012-02-25
N1 level according to jlpt site
jlpt site Wrote:N1They really should append "40% of the time" to the end of each sentence in those bulleted points, because really that's what it's testing.
The ability to understand Japanese used in a variety of circumstances.
・One is able to read writings with logical complexity and/or abstract writings on a variety of topics, such as newspaper editorials and critiques, and comprehend both their structures and contents.
・One is also able to read written materials with profound contents on various topics and follow their narratives as well as understand the intent of the writers comprehensively.
・One is able to comprehend orally presented materials such as coherent conversations, news reports, and lectures, spoken at natural speed in a broad variety of settings, and is able to follow their ideas and comprehend their contents comprehensively. One is also able to understand the details of the presented materials such as the relationships among the people involved, the logical structures, and the essential points.
2011 JLPT study thread - rich_f - 2012-02-25
If I have passed N2, and studied for 6 months, there *should* be a better way to measure my progress in those 6 months than forcing me to take N1. The gap between N2 and N1 is noticeable.
My only option now is to keep taking N1 until I pass. That's it.
I've said it before; I'm in favor of a sliding scale. You take a test and get a number: no cookies, no pats on the head--that sort of thing. No passing, no failing. You just get a number that relates to how well you know Japanese, with some useful information on what kinds of questions you got right, and what kinds of questions you got wrong, so you know what you know, and more importantly, find out where you're lacking.
But I know that will never happen, and that's kind of sad.
2011 JLPT study thread - Splatted - 2012-02-25
nadiatims Wrote:N1 level according to jlpt siteThat's not what they're testing at all; like Filanzea said, they award more points for questions that more people got wrong. It's perfectly possible to get a low score despite having correctly answered a high percentage of the questions.
jlpt site Wrote:N1They really should append "40% of the time" to the end of each sentence in those bulleted points, because really that's what it's testing.
The ability to understand Japanese used in a variety of circumstances.
・One is able to read writings with logical complexity and/or abstract writings on a variety of topics, such as newspaper editorials and critiques, and comprehend both their structures and contents.
・One is also able to read written materials with profound contents on various topics and follow their narratives as well as understand the intent of the writers comprehensively.
・One is able to comprehend orally presented materials such as coherent conversations, news reports, and lectures, spoken at natural speed in a broad variety of settings, and is able to follow their ideas and comprehend their contents comprehensively. One is also able to understand the details of the presented materials such as the relationships among the people involved, the logical structures, and the essential points.
This system means that to pass, you not only have to do well on the test, you also have to do better than most of the other people who take it, hence the low pass rate.
Edit: Actually, it rewards you for knowing things that most people don't, but it doesn't really punish you for not knowing things that most people do, so those with an unusual set of strengths and weaknesses will do better despite not necessarily being better at Japanese over all. I wonder if it's possible to use that to focus your study in order to pass before you should normally be able to.
2011 JLPT study thread - rich_f - 2012-02-25
There's a paper on the jlpt.jp website that goes into excruciating detail about how they score the tests. Someone linked to it a while ago, probably in this thread.
Anyway, bottom line, the test is a competition between test takers. That's how it is. The people administrating the test set the curve based on how people's raw scores turn out, then curve the scores so only a certain percentage will pass.
What everyone else has said is correct: if you get a question right that everyone else got right, you get fewer points (or maybe even 0). If you get a question right that fewer people got right, you get points, period.
If you look at the test, the raw scores and the /60 scores don't match. It's that way for a reason.
Read the paper if you want to know sort of how they make the sausage... they won't tell you everything, but it's enough.
2011 JLPT study thread - kainzero - 2012-02-25
rich_f Wrote:If I have passed N2, and studied for 6 months, there *should* be a better way to measure my progress in those 6 months than forcing me to take N1. The gap between N2 and N1 is noticeable.as far as i'm concerned, N2/N1 is really just resume material, which is why i favor pass/fail over a sliding scale because in the end, it's just a benchmark and true understanding can only be tested in real situations and you need experience to develop your language skill further.
My only option now is to keep taking N1 until I pass. That's it.
I've said it before; I'm in favor of a sliding scale. You take a test and get a number: no cookies, no pats on the head--that sort of thing. No passing, no failing. You just get a number that relates to how well you know Japanese, with some useful information on what kinds of questions you got right, and what kinds of questions you got wrong, so you know what you know, and more importantly, find out where you're lacking.
But I know that will never happen, and that's kind of sad.
the sliding scale makes it more obnoxious on the resume... i'm a bit annoyed by how discriminatory some employers are on their TOEIC results, requiring a certain score, which makes it certain for people to take it again and again, repeating certain challenges over and over instead of finding new ones.
as for the curve, fyi for N2/N1, the vocab/grammar is a raw score whereas the reading and listening scores are scaled/weighted.
2011 JLPT study thread - mutley - 2012-02-26
The scaled scoring system means that you can't simply say that you only need a certain % of correct answers to pass. I think the passing mark for the old level 1 test was about 70% and it wouldn't supprise me if the level for the new test is similar, but it will vary from test to test and will also depend on which of the questions you get right.
In other words, even if you answer 70% of the questions correctly on the new test you may still only get a score of roughly 100/180 (55.5%) once all the scaling has been done.
Even at the 70% correct level though it still means that there is a lot that you are not understanding fully. I would expect there to be a pretty big ability difference (well in terms of skills measured by the test at least) between someone just scraping a pass and someone scoring over 160 (which I guess is partly the point of the new scoring system).
2011 JLPT study thread - zigmonty - 2012-02-26
rich_f Wrote:If I have passed N2, and studied for 6 months, there *should* be a better way to measure my progress in those 6 months than forcing me to take N1. The gap between N2 and N1 is noticeable.Why do you need validation of 6 month's progress when you're at N1 level and presumably have been learning japanese for a number of years? I think you might need to relax a bit. I'm probably going to take the N1 this December and that will be 2 years since i passed the N2. I'm going for a comfortable pass, not the stressful crap that was my N2 attempt.
My only option now is to keep taking N1 until I pass. That's it.
If you want to see your progress, sit the N2 again and compare your score to the last time. I did that recently and was fairly encouraged by the results (like 25+% higher mark). Seems a little silly to pay for that though.
2011 JLPT study thread - erlog - 2012-02-26
I think the test is mostly fine the way it is. The new test is definitely better in a lot of ways than the old test. If anything they should ratchet everything down, and make a new professional N1 that includes a composition and interview. The current N5 is super weird. I literally don't know who it's designed for.
2011 JLPT study thread - Gingerninja - 2012-02-27
About time they came through.
N3 - Passed.. I'm completely mediocre now.. and I have the certificate to prove it!
Grammar/ Vocab - 42/60
Reading - 31/60
Listening - 41/60
Total 114/180
Odd I thought I'd done well in the reading but botched the listening, oh well.
2011 JLPT study thread - Splatted - 2012-02-27
Lol, congratulations on your mediocrity!
2011 JLPT study thread - tregingigan - 2012-02-27
Yay!
N3. Received my results friday.
Language knowledge 56/60
Reading 34/60
Listening 40/60
Total 130/180
Vocabulary A
Grammar A
My problem is that I can't read fast enough! At the end of the Reading section I still had the last three readings to go. The longer ones, so I presume the more important. Well, it's mainly a matter of exercise, I presume. (I hope?)
This apart, your opinion gentlemen. I study, as average, 1-2 hrs a day. Enough to try N2 next December or i'm aiming too high? N2 grammar, for instance, seems a lot more than N3 and rather complex, too.
2011 JLPT study thread - erlog - 2012-02-27
tregingigan Wrote:This apart, your opinion gentlemen. I study, as average, 1-2 hrs a day. Enough to try N2 next December or i'm aiming too high? N2 grammar, for instance, seems a lot more than N3 and rather complex, too.The grammar section of the test is so tiny now that I wouldn't worry too much about that aspect. 1-2 hours a day for the next year should be fine for you to pass N2 in December. You could probably pass it in July.
2011 JLPT study thread - Zorlee - 2012-02-28
N1 PASSED! YAY!!!!!
Language Knowledge: 60/60 (!)
Reading: 47/60
Listening: 48/60
Total Score: 155/180
When I took the test I'd been studying Japanese for 2,5 years, so I'm really happy with this score
2011 JLPT study thread - jettyke - 2012-02-28
Zorlee Wrote:N1 PASSED! YAY!!!!!Congrats!!!
Language Knowledge: 60/60 (!)
Reading: 47/60
Listening: 48/60
Total Score: 155/180
When I took the test I'd been studying Japanese for 2,5 years, so I'm really happy with this score
A nice score!
2011 JLPT study thread - zigmonty - 2012-02-28
Zorlee Wrote:N1 PASSED! YAY!!!!!Jesus... Seriously, congrats.
Language Knowledge: 60/60 (!)
Reading: 47/60
Listening: 48/60
Total Score: 155/180
When I took the test I'd been studying Japanese for 2,5 years, so I'm really happy with this score
2011 JLPT study thread - radical_tyro - 2012-02-29
Zorlee Wrote:N1 PASSED! YAY!!!!!congrats... that's damn impressive! how have you been studying?
Language Knowledge: 60/60 (!)
Reading: 47/60
Listening: 48/60
Total Score: 155/180
When I took the test I'd been studying Japanese for 2,5 years, so I'm really happy with this score
2011 JLPT study thread - ta12121 - 2012-02-29
Zorlee Wrote:N1 PASSED! YAY!!!!!awesome, a true success story.
Language Knowledge: 60/60 (!)
Reading: 47/60
Listening: 48/60
Total Score: 155/180
When I took the test I'd been studying Japanese for 2,5 years, so I'm really happy with this score
2011 JLPT study thread - radical_tyro - 2012-02-29
i received my scores saturday...
N1
Language knowledge: 46/60
Reading: 21/60
Listening: 27/60
Total: 94/100
Vocabulary: B
Grammar: A
close but no cigar! my brain stopped working on the reading section and i fell apart. actually, based on the very few number of questions i felt confident in, i expected my score to be WAY lower than this. actually i felt so defeated during the break i felt like going home, so if that happens to any of you in the future, remember don't stress out and hang in there!
2011 JLPT study thread - thisiskyle - 2012-02-29
The way the scaling seems to work, from what I could find, is they use the number of people who answered a certain question correctly and compare that to the number who answered a similar question in previous sittings; if fewer people answered a given question correctly this year than last year, they judge this year's question to be harder than previously and assume that the people that got it right this year are likely to have a higher level of proficiency than those who got it right last year. That's nonsense for a single question, but averaged over all questions (assuming there are a lot of them) it should put those who took the test this year, and those that took it last year on an even footing, regardless of which test was harder, and prevent (to some degree) people with lower levels of proficiency from getting high scores based on getting lucky and sitting an easy test.
The point of the scaling does not seem to be comparing the people that took the test in the same sitting with each other to determine scores. I think that's good. If I am at a certain level of proficiency, my score should reflect that regardless of how good or bad others did. The test should not be a competition and, based on what I can find, it's not. There are not a limited number of "foreigners with good Japanese skills" slots to fill so it would make no sense to compete. I couldn't find anything saying that the tests are curved so that a certain percentage will pass every time.
With that said, it would be nice to be told the percentile of your raw score to those who sat the same test just for personal reasons.
2011 JLPT study thread - Guoguodi - 2012-02-29
Graphs of the cumulative distribution are available on the JLPT site (at least last time I checked). Zorlee's overall score of 155/180, for example, means that his scaled score was in the top 5% of all test takers.
The passing mark is set based on previous tests' raw score distributions. This is where the comparison against previous years become relevant to the current year. They tweak it so that the pass-fail bar is roughly the same each year. On the other hand, your actual scaled score that you see in your results is determined through some formula that takes into account what combination of questions you got correct compared to other test takers.
It all boils down to whether you are in the top 40 percent or so of that year's test takers. A good rule of thumb to achieve that is to answer at least 70% of the questions on the test correctly.