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+--- Thread: The AJATT Method (/thread-682.html)
The AJATT Method - blackmacros - 2009-07-14
nonpoint Wrote:I masturbate to japanese porn. I just thought I would throw that out there.Always good to know.
The AJATT Method - bombpersons - 2009-07-14
blackmacros Wrote:All Japanese All The Time, huh?nonpoint Wrote:I masturbate to japanese porn. I just thought I would throw that out there.Always good to know.
The AJATT Method - aphasiac - 2009-07-14
blackmacros Wrote:So if I watch and listen to 10,000 hours of J-porn I will achieve fluency? wow, this is a great method...nonpoint Wrote:I masturbate to japanese porn. I just thought I would throw that out there.Always good to know.
The AJATT Method - Dakoina - 2009-07-14
aphasiac Wrote:Somewhere that'll start to hurtblackmacros Wrote:So if I watch and listen to 10,000 hours of J-porn I will achieve fluency? wow, this is a great method...nonpoint Wrote:I masturbate to japanese porn. I just thought I would throw that out there.Always good to know.
The AJATT Method - Nukemarine - 2009-07-14
Aphrasiac,
AJATT is more about the environment than the study method but more on that later. You're not jumping into random sentences as that's as pointless as throwing a dictionary into a tree shredder and groping at the results. If the sentences are all coming from Death Note anime, then that's not really random is it? It's a source that you like or is of interest to you. To another person looking at it, it'll be random, but to you each and every sentence will likely have a purpose.
Although you don't have to start with structured resources such as Core 2000, or UBJG, or Tae Kim it makes your task later on much easier. RTK is a structured source that you don't have to start with, but it makes your task later on much easier. Now, I would recommend a something that gives you RTK, then basic grammar, then basic vocabulary. After all that, you have a decent base to make mining real sentences from material you like much easier.
On your second point, you answered yourself. It's not about random audio or sentences. It can be looping Matrix 24/7 (if you can stand doing that), while mining sentences from Matrix. In my case, I've only mined 1 1/2 shows. I have the audio looping on my iPod from those shows. As I mine more shows I get more audio in the loop. Now, I also have 48 hours of other J-Drama audio of shows I watched on my iPod, but I find listening to that 2 hours of looped audio more enjoyable because I know it so well.
AJATT is in the name, it's about setting up the Environment that you like but in Japanese. By making the environment that way, you don't have to think about doing it. It's done, it's there, you have to make the active choice to leave it, which for lazy people is asking a lot. It doesn't have to be random audio. It can be music and sound tracks from shows you like. You can get a Japanese magazine and paste pages all over you walls. Just have Japanese on your iPod and playing on your room. Yet, still AJATT.
In my opinion, that's what AJATT is about: the environment. The study methods I don't qualify as it becomes obvious we all have different study habits. It seems most questions and debates about AJATT deal more with how he approached it with his study method. He recommended one structured source directly (RTK) and another one or two indirectly (UBJG, and AATP). Even then, he kind of recommended structured sources with mining in form of sample sentences for words. That's why he links to dictionaries. It just seems that he has his way that'll work for some, and there are other ways that'll also work for others.
The AJATT Method - nac_est - 2009-07-14
aphasiac,
no one said the sentences should be random. Actually, Khatz calls it "sentence picking", because you're supposed to choose sentences you like/you want to learn/could be useful to you.
The AJATT Method - aphasiac - 2009-07-14
Nuke Marine - thanks for your reply, makes alot of sense.
where you do recommend learning basic vocab from ? My point was, if I start mining sentences from Deathnote after Tae Kim then it will be fun, and it will allow me to understand more Deathnote (and possibly more manga in general), but I don't see how it will lead to me being able to converse in Japanese in time for my holiday next year.
Really what I was asking is; how can I use AJATT to get me to at least JLPT4 in 6 months time.
The AJATT Method - Nukemarine - 2009-07-14
Don't think of it in months, think of it in hours. How many study hours are you going to use (and yes, mining Death Note for sentences is still studying). If you study like I do (grammar and mined sentences I type out the answer on Anki), then it can take about 5 to 10 minutes per sentences over it's review life in six months. The 850 sentences from Tae Kim in addition to the few hundred you'll get from Death Note and other shows will take some time. If you did this an hour a day, you'll get to JLPT 4 level slower than if you did 3 hours a day.
Reason why sentence mining is studying: You're looking up definitions for words, and maybe adding sample sentences for those words. Then you're re-reading all that when you review the cards. Trust me, that's studying.
Reason why watching Death Note before or after you mined it is not studying: You're not looking up a dang thing. You're going with the flow and enjoying yourself. You may find the show more enjoyable after mining.
PS: I don't recommend mining all of Death Note. Maybe just the first manga or three episodes (roughly 1200 sentences to pick from). After that, pick another resource to keep rounding out your Japanese.
The AJATT Method - Codexus - 2009-07-14
aphasiac Wrote:Assuming I'll finish RTK by September, I'm visiting Japan in March 2010 and I want to be semi-conversationally fluent by then.Good luck with that.
Seriously, it's not that AJATT is not compatible, it's just that even studying literally "all the time" that's extremely difficult. Off course it depends what you mean exactly by "semi-conversationally fluent", but to me, that doesn't sound like something you can achieve in 6 months.
nac_est Wrote:Actually, Khatz calls it "sentence picking", because you're supposed to choose sentences you like/you want to learn/could be useful to you.Does he? I always blame him for the terrible expression "sentence mining", sentence picking is much better.
The AJATT Method - nac_est - 2009-07-14
@Codexus
He appears to agree with you
Khatzumoto Wrote:We’ve been calling the process “sentence-mining”. Looking back, it was fun sort of coining a new, cool-sounding phrase, but unfortunately, it’s a misnomer. Mining is so industrial, so rough, like carpet-bombing and massive smoke stacks. So not Toyota Prius. A better name would be sentence-picking, or even clause-picking or phrase-picking (since you don’t necessarily have to pick an entire sentence). Picking. You know, like berries — you go for the big, red/purple juicy, ripe, sweet ones. Mmmm…Remember, selectivity is key. Your goal is not to collect every sentence to which you have access, your goal is to collect sentences that are interesting to you.http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/how-to-banish-boredom-from-sentence-mining-sentence-picking
The AJATT Method - mafried - 2009-07-14
aphasiac, two points:
first the point of 24/7 audio input is not to reinforce what you've already learned. it is to train your brain to process and decipher the sound of the Japanese language. this is a separate process from SRS, and one that doesn't get enough mention on this site or AJATT.
second your timeframe is short enough that AJATT won't give you what you're looking for. RTK -> Tae Kim -> KO2001 is a good path and I recommend that you do that, but find yourself a conversation partner/tutor that you can meet with on a regular basis. You will need output practice or you will be very frustrated once you get there. the philosophy of AJATT is to work on things in an order that will make the very long term goal of fluency achieve more quickly and efficiently, but in a time frame still measured in years. your requirements do not allow for such luxuries.
The AJATT Method - aaronvanvalen - 2009-07-14
aphasiac Wrote:I think you will be very fluent once you find yourself a girlfriend and are getting down (see http://forum.koohii.com/showthread.php?tid=3512 ) but the path towards one presented there might not always be true to life. Compare with watching too much American porn and being surprised the hot milf or hot sister did NOT invite you over for some sexy stuff while your best friend is away on football practice only to join you later for a spit-roast and high-five.blackmacros Wrote:So if I watch and listen to 10,000 hours of J-porn I will achieve fluency? wow, this is a great method...nonpoint Wrote:I masturbate to japanese porn. I just thought I would throw that out there.Always good to know.
The AJATT Method - Nii87 - 2009-07-14
^Or the girls don't have a mosaic where there should be. I was honestly amazed when I saw non mosaic stuff. I've been conditioned to expect otherwise.
The AJATT Method - taijuando - 2009-07-14
one way to get ready for your visit is to find a phrasebook you enjoy...pick the sentences or phrases you might use from that so at least you have that in your bank....I have the Lonely Planet phrasebook...it's okay
The AJATT Method - captal - 2009-07-14
Being at JLPT4 level and being semi-conversational are two different things in my opinion. Even after passing JLPT3 I would have barely called myself semi-conversational. The test has nothing to do with conversation.
I'd say you're better off following a structure path and setting up the environment Nuke Marine talks about. Knowing how to say 正義は勝ちますよ！ (Justice will prevail!) is cool but probably not that handy at first. Yep that sentence is from Death Note, and yes, it is in my Anki deck.
taijuando mentioned phrase books- not a bad idea as you can find a lot of useful sentences- but you might not understand the grammar or reasoning behind what is said.
Tae Kim and KO2001 get recommended a lot around here- perhaps that's the path to follow.
The AJATT Method - aphasiac - 2009-07-15
I've decided I'm going to follow the RtK > Tae Kim > KO2001 route. After much reading of this forum, it seems like the most logical path.
I should be able to finish by March, and it should give me a decent set of vocab plus ability to read street signs/menus. Really that's all I'm after.
The AJATT Method - usis35 - 2009-07-15
aphasiac Wrote:I've decided I'm going to follow the RtK > Tae Kim > KO2001 route. After much reading of this forum, it seems like the most logical path.Maybe it is best to do RtK Lite> Tae Kim > KO2001 route, it will save you time because you wont be using more than 1100 kanji in KO2001. You can learn the rest after KO2001.
I should be able to finish by March, and it should give me a decent set of vocab plus ability to read street signs/menus. Really that's all I'm after.
The AJATT Method - thurd - 2009-07-15
aphasiac Wrote:I've decided I'm going to follow the RtK > Tae Kim > KO2001 route. After much reading of this forum, it seems like the most logical path.I don't have a deadline like you but I'll also follow the same path and I expect a decent level Japanese by March
I should be able to finish by March, and it should give me a decent set of vocab plus ability to read street signs/menus. Really that's all I'm after.
You don't have to understand everything to 'know' a language. I don't understand some keywords used by Heisig (even basic ones like angling) and yet I feel perfectly comfortable with my English, confident enough to call myself 'fluent'. I don't do very well on tests but I completely ace reading and conversations and I'd never want it the other way around. Thats what I'm aiming for with my Japanese and thats what AJATT will give me.
I don't guess AJATT works I KNOW it works because thats how I learned English.
The AJATT Method - undead_saif - 2009-07-16
blackmacros Wrote:Reminds me of how I suddenly found that I have a lot of English vocabulary after playing (while paying attention to the story too) video games for more than 3 years, whatever my English level is, I didn't earn it from school.magamo Wrote:I agree completely with this. Ever since I discovered AJATT I haven't devoted a single minute of study to Japanese. Its not study anymore; its my fun. I just live it. Its my entertainment. Its what I do when I take a break from my other studies.Aijin Wrote:I think... ...Fortunately, most people are not that stupid. Most of us respect academia and traditional methods too, I think. At least I do. It's just conventional methods didn't work well for me. Maybe I'm too dumb to do school things. Maybe I'm too lazy to adopt "serious" methods. I just love the idea that learning should be fun.
The AJATT Method - undead_saif - 2009-07-16
aphasiac Wrote:I've decided I'm going to follow the RtK > Tae Kim > KO2001 route. After much reading of this forum, it seems like the most logical path.Where does Smart.fm fit in?
I should be able to finish by March, and it should give me a decent set of vocab plus ability to read street signs/menus. Really that's all I'm after.
The AJATT Method - Nukemarine - 2009-07-16
Pretty much, if you do KO2k1 you don't need to do smart.fm and vice versa. It's like: you can do De Roos or RTK, but it's silly to do both as it accomplishes the same thing. Same thing would be Tae Kim or Genki or UBJG.
He's chosen his: Kanji, Grammar, and Vocabulary basic sources. After that, I think it should be mining an entire drama show or two.
The AJATT Method - thorstenu - 2009-07-16
undead_saif Wrote:You could use the smart.fm ko2001 lists.aphasiac Wrote:I've decided I'm going to follow the RtK > Tae Kim > KO2001 route. After much reading of this forum, it seems like the most logical path.Where does Smart.fm fit in?
I should be able to finish by March, and it should give me a decent set of vocab plus ability to read street signs/menus. Really that's all I'm after.
The AJATT Method - ryuudou - 2009-07-18
Sorry if I missed it but why is this unstickied now?
The AJATT Method - nicksan - 2009-07-20
Just a reminder to everyone, the AJATT QRG is coming out tomorrow. No idea what form this will take (paid for?), but it's basically a guide for learners at every step of the journey. I'm looking forward to it.
The AJATT Method - meolox - 2009-07-20
nicksan Wrote:Just a reminder to everyone, the AJATT QRG is coming out tomorrow. No idea what form this will take (paid for?), but it's basically a guide for learners at every step of the journey. I'm looking forward to it.Yeah really looking forward to this.