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JET - Thora - 2010-11-19
Thanks for answering my earlier questions, folks. :-)
Womacks23 Wrote:There is no special regulation which lets JET alumni receive Japanese teaching licenses. Though I do believe they tried a program in Yokohama 10 years ago but they couldn't find anyone who could pass the testing so it was abandoned. Similar to the situation of Indonesian nurses in Japan today.yes, that's what passed through my head when I read that few teachers had taken advantage of the opportunity: that Japan was again creating policy that purports to do something (to appease some interest group), but in reality has no practical effect. *bitter grumbling* :-p
Unfortunately, I don't recall the details of what I read. It might have been that it's legal for foreigners to become licensed public school teachers (but with restrictions) or that (as J7 mentioned) prefectures can hire foreign language teachers directly as special instructors (even though they're unlicensed). In any event, I was mistaken that JET people could become regular licensed teachers. So I guess playing a role in school admin is still beyond the grasp of foreigners.
@nadiatims: I'm curious, are you saying that monolingual people cannot be good foreign language instructors? Also, if you consider FLE certifications and Education degrees to be useless, what would you suggest instead?
JET - nadiatims - 2010-11-19
Thora Wrote:I'm curious, are you saying that monolingual people cannot be good foreign language instructors?I'm not saying monolinguals can't be good foreign language teachers in theory but in practice It does seem to be the case for a whole bunch of reasons. They can not get to know their students and understand their difficulties. They are unable to answer students questions about grammar, can't explain grammar mistakes when marking written work, can't accurately gauge what it is students are actually trying to say etc. Can't use Japanese for prompting or checking comprehension. Go listen to some pimsleur mp3s, it's impossible to give that kind of lesson if you don't understand your students' language. Then there's all sorts of practicalities of directing a class full of students. That becomes a lot easier if you understand what's going on around you. Also if you have never learned a language yourself, any advice you give on learning one is basically just talking from a position of ignorance. I'll give an analogy. Who would you prefer as a personal trainer?
A proven athlete in demonstrably good form.
A fat guy who's read a bunch of books on fitness.
It may be cruel to say, but a monolingual is basically a linguistic fatty. They don't know what works,why or what students need to know until they get some personal experience.
Thora Wrote:Also, if you consider FLE certifications and Education degrees to be useless, what would you suggest instead?I think the younger the students, the more relevant some formal teaching qualifications may be, but even then I'm not sure if that's any more useful than just having experience. Can't really comment too much on the various certifications for language teaching as I've never taken one of the courses, but judging by most of the literature on the web, available esl teaching materials, people I've met and talks I've listened to, a lot of it seems to be useless.
I'd say a good teacher should be judged on:
knowledge of subject matter (understanding how language in general works, not just english)
understanding students
communication ability
experience
JET - nadiatims - 2010-11-19
They still exist. Not sure how common they are though. Maybe more common in the inaka. I work at 3 schools, one of which is my base. The other 2 change every 2 or 3 semesters, but I'm occasionally sent back to the same schools or meet the same co-workers at different schools.
JET - Thora - 2010-11-19
nadiatims Wrote:I'm not saying monolinguals can't be good foreign language teachers in theory but in practice It does seem to be the case for a whole bunch of reasons. ...With some methods language teaching, the teacher only uses the target language. I imagine a monolingual teacher would use some combination of such methods. ;-) Canada's 50?-year experience with French immersion has produced oodles of research. Classroom management isn't a problem - teachers have that sorted out.
Your list amounts to the reasons you reject that language learning approach. Fine. But in the case of ALTs in Japan, weren't they originally meant to assist the regular teacher by using communicative methods with no Japanese? Even if that approach isn't followed, the regular teacher is there to speak Japanese, if needed. I don't see how a monolingual ALT is a problem in the classroom.
Quote:Also if you have never learned a language yourself, any advice you give on learning one is basically just talking from a position of ignorance.Oh? Experts on the pyschology of serial killers aren't usually serial killers. My gynecologist has a penis, but he's considered one of the best gynecologists in NYC.
Quote:Who would you prefer as a personal trainer?I don't know. Who's more knowledgeable and a better coach?
A proven athlete in demonstrably good form.
A fat guy who's read a bunch of books on fitness.
My neighbour coaches elite athletes (national swimmers) but was never a competitive swimmer himself. Maybe your athlete is blessed with good genes and would have responded to any training program. He knows only one method and has no clue why it worked or might not work for somebody else. Maybe the chubby bloke is an expert on what methods work in different situations and has successfully coached several people.
Quote:It may be cruel to say, but a monolingual is basically a linguistic fatty. They don't know what works,why or what students need to know until they get some personal experience.It may be cruel to say, but your argument is fatuitous.
Quote:I think the younger the students, the more relevant some formal teaching qualifications may be, but even then I'm not sure if that's any more useful than just having experience. Can't really comment too much on the various certifications for language teaching as I've never taken one of the courses, but judging by most of the literature on the web, available esl teaching materials, people I've met and talks I've listened to, a lot of it seems to be useless.I see. I just don't think that sticking someone in front of a class and letting them figure out how to teach by trial and error is the best way to create good teachers. I also don't think learning a language necessarily makes one a good language teacher, but it can help some people. If I understand correctly, your point was that JET should only hire experienced ESL teachers or foreign language learners. You could say that without implying that all education training and everyone else is useless. I'm not sure you're really in a position to judge.
Incidentally, we don't judge teachers based on experience; we judge them based on ability.
JET - nadiatims - 2010-11-20
@thora
re: french immersion. I think french immersion schools in Canada, where students take all or some of their subjects in French (correct me if I'm wrong) is not really comparable to the situation in Japan where students take 3 to 4 50 minute English classes each week.
thora Wrote:Who would you prefer as a personal trainer?I should have written, assuming they are equal on all other fronts. For example both have zero teaching experience.
A proven athlete in demonstrably good form.
A fat guy who's read a bunch of books on fitness.
I don't know. Who's more knowledgeable and a better coach?
thora Wrote:My neighbour coaches elite athletes (national swimmers) but was never a competitive swimmer himself. Maybe your athlete is blessed with good genes and would have responded to any training program. He knows only one method and has no clue why it worked or might not work for somebody else. Maybe the chubby bloke is an expert on what methods work in different situations and has successfully coached several people.Your neighbour can swim right? But really same point as above. Assuming zero real experience as a teacher, I'd take the guy who at least has first hand experience. I'm not anti book knowledge by the way. I just think a person needs real experience to give the book knowledge a context through which they can judge what works and what doesn't.
thora Wrote:I see. I just don't think that sticking someone in front of a class and letting them figure out how to teach by trial and error is the best way to create good teachers. I also don't think learning a language necessarily makes one a good language teacher, but it can help some people. If I understand correctly, your point was that JET should only hire experienced ESL teachers or foreign language learners. You could say that without implying that all education training and everyone else is useless. I'm not sure you're really in a position to judge.I think to be a full-time teacher, someone probably should require a diploma in teaching (say a year and half), a year working full-time as student teacher (perhaps assigned to a mentor teacher), and proven knowledge (certification?) in the subject they will teach.
Incidentally, we don't judge teachers based on experience; we judge them based on ability.
I am rather sceptical that a four week esl certification qualifies a monolingual English speaker to teach English to anyone but already advanced students, but advanced students need to put in a lot of work themselves if they expect to improve, so they are probably better off being directed to quality self study by an experienced learner than being spoon-fed in a classroom. My entire point was that the majority of JETs despite all their whinging about being relegated to a minor role in the classroom (being tape recorders etc) aren't really qualified to do much more especially when they are freshly hired by the embassy. If you can at least speak japanese you can understand your students and respond to their questions. You can become a dictionary, a grammar reference, a model language learner, give easily understandable answers to specific questions, understand why your students make the errors they do and how to fix them and be a model of correct accent/usage.