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RTK : The Intermediate language between Kanji and English ? - RiderBoy - 2010-11-15
Hello everybody ,
This is the first time I've posted on this forum . I dont know how on earth Im be able to find this forum , but Im glad I found it cause ATM Im studying Japanese , following both RTK for Kanji learning and Japanese for Everyone for practical Japanese .
I think I need a little introduction . Im a Vietnamese , currently at the fourth university year , so obviously English is not my native language . That's why studying RTK makes a hell of problem out of me : 2000 of something isnt easy by its own mean - especially while it is NOT in your native tongue , not to mention so-often-occured bizzare keywords of Helsig . And I have heard streams of biased agaisnt Helsig method , enough for everyone considered " WTF , is it that bad , should I followed it ? "
But by all means possible , I found RTK extremely effective - although I need more than often to alter Heisig stories , or even completely rewrite it to suit my own need due to the horrible position of elements he chose : it didnt follow any logic at all . After a little more than a month , I am currently at frames 700 of RTK and lesson 6/28 of JfE . Still not nearly enough for reading anything , since the main goal for me is fluently in reading first to finish all of non-localized Tales game AND Seinarukana - man Eien no Aselia rocks so damn hard , Seinarukana is the main reason for me to learn Japanese .
Back to the problem at hand . I found more than often that Heisig keywords are NOT accurate , like " hanging scroll " supposed to be " width " , " all " supposed to be " everyone " and so on . But by all means possible , learning the Kanji WITHOUT Heisig method seems practically impossible , since at my country most prominient Japanese center it takes you 33 month ~ 3 years to learn all the course AND it still only gives you fluency only for nearly 700 kanji , no more , no less , of course with the assurance of speaking and grammar .
So ATM , with tons of hours exprimenting with iVocab Shuffle , I had an feeling that is RTK supposed to be some sort of intermediate language between the real meaning of Kanji - especially compounds - and English , or like some 2000-character-or-more alphabet . Mastering a language without learning the alphabet is practically impossible , so I think we could decipher the Kanji with much more ease after finished RTK .
I found my self a little example :
- 未確認, not yet assuared acknowledged => " Unconfirmed " , fit perfectly .
and a lot more . Of course a lot of combination doesnt make any senses at all , like 面= mask , 白= white , but "masked white = interesting" ( 面白い - おもしろい ）, but at least it gave us some " direction " and " senses " , like 未確認 without rtk is a mess of strokes - not to mention learning the meaning itself .
Any one shares the same idea with me ?
And btw , if possible , anyone knows about the false defination of Helsig ? So far I known some :
- " hanging scroll " supposed to be " width "
- " all " supposed to be " everyone "
- " exam " supposed to be " school "
Thanks for taking your time reading this .
RTK : The Intermediate language between Kanji and English ? - JimmySeal - 2010-11-15
Heisig keywords aren't meanings. They're unique names.
There's no combination of actual meanings you could use to make sense of the word 面白い, so there's no sense faulting Heisig for that one not making sense.
RTK : The Intermediate language between Kanji and English ? - Teskal - 2010-11-15
" all " supposed to be " everyone "
you can't describe a Kanji with one english word.
'all' is correct, but 'everyone', ist correct, too.
you will find 1-10 different meanings for one Kanji, because japanese (and chinese) people are using them in very different meanings and kanji combinations.
食 is 'eating', but also food if you write 食べ物.
RTK : The Intermediate language between Kanji and English ? - Katsuo - 2010-11-15
Hi, I'd agree a few of the keywords could be better. But I think Heisig did a good job overall, especially considering that he was a beginner in Japanese when he wrote the book.
Exam 校: Yes, I think "school" would be better. "Examine" is a secondary meaning for this kanji, so I guess that's where "exam" came from.
Hanging scroll 幅: This kanji can be used as a counter for hanging scrolls, but "width" is certainly the more common meaning.
All 皆: I think this one's ok as the kanji is sometimes used to refer to other things as well as to people.
I made a spreadsheet to compare the English names given to kanji by various sources. This can be used as a quick check while going through the book.
RTK : The Intermediate language between Kanji and English ? - RiderBoy - 2010-11-15
Yeah , what Im referring to is the most common meaning of the kanji , cause like English , one words can have several different meaníngs . It's the same for all languages .
But by all means possible , I do not have any intentions to criticize RtK . Learning Kanji without RtK - to the extent of 2000 or more - is virtually impossible for a foreginer .