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The significance of white in Chinese culture? - Matthew - 2006-07-01
Has anyone else noticed that when white 白 gets added to another primitive, the resultant meaning is often something like a "better" version?
For example, white added to one 一 is hundred 百。
White added to person 人 is chief 伯。
White added to king 王 is emporer 皇。
White added to boat 舟 is liner 舶。
Doing a brief search, I find a few little tidbits claiming that the Chinese associated white with things like death or purity, but I feel like there must be a deeper story to it. I wonder if there are any good books out there that might discuss topics like this?
The significance of white in Chinese culture? - Immacolata - 2006-07-01
Sounds like you got it right, doesn't have to be any deeper than that. Pure white has always been something special in all societies, perhaps on the account of keeping anything pure white is a bit of a challenge in a world of farming, livestock in the town and unpaved streets - and no laundrettes.
Its a nice tip though, I will keep a look out for those white elements from now on
The significance of white in Chinese culture? - ocircle - 2009-12-11
hmm.. I've always associated white with death... Ghosts, for example, are always portrayed wearing white garments.
The significance of white in Chinese culture? - yudantaiteki - 2009-12-11
Don't forget that in many kanji, those elements are just representing a sound and not the meaning of the stand alone character.
According to Kanjigen:
In 百, 白 is used purely for sound and has nothing to do with white.
In 伯, the same.
In 皇, the top part was originally 自, not 白, which originally had the meaning of はじまる (in this case, "first" as in "top")
In 舶, they say that 白 is for sound but don't mention why that element was chosen.
The significance of white in Chinese culture? - wildweathel - 2009-12-11
Yudanteki beat me to the point on the 音読み.
In fact, this is a "pure group:" if 白 is to the right, the character has the 音読み 「ハク」.
Two characters where 白 doesn't indicate pronunciation.:
皇 seems to have been originally pictograph of a KING 王 wearing a fancy crown, which later became 自, and then 白: http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterASP/CharacterEtymology.aspx?characterInput=%E7%9A%87&submitButton1=Etymology
的 CLEARly 白 see what's in the LADLE 勺。
The significance of white in Chinese culture? - ruiner - 2009-12-11
White = foreign devils.
The significance of white in Chinese culture? - yudantaiteki - 2009-12-11
wildweathel Wrote:皇 seems to have been originally pictograph of a KING 王 wearing a fancy crown, which later became 自, and then 白: http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterASPWhere did you get the "fancy crown"? Kanjigen says that it's originally 自, which came from a picture of a nose and indicated "first" as I said above. The link you provided has the quote from the Shuowen Jiezi:
大也從自自始也始王者三皇大君也自讀若鼻今俗以作始生子為鼻子
My classical Chinese is not that great, but I believe that 從自自始也 is what the Kanjigen is saying, and I see 鼻 in there as well.
The significance of white in Chinese culture? - wildweathel - 2009-12-11
My interpretation (thus "seems to be") of the bronze script characters. The top of 皇 is a circle with spikes, similar to 自, except that 自 has the two lines in the center (like it's modern form) while 皇 was written with an empty or dotted circle. Admittedly, I'm no expert on ancient Chinese, so I could be wrong.
Or, more prosaically, I took a look at the old forms, pulled something out of my ass, and hedged it.
The significance of white in Chinese culture? - yudantaiteki - 2009-12-11
Oh, OK. I just wondered because there are conflicting accounts of character etymology since a lot of it is so uncertain. I typically just blindly trust Kanjigen because I don't know anything about interpreting the evidence myself.
The significance of white in Chinese culture? - nest0r - 2009-12-11
Ugh my head hurts. Changed my mind, kanji's way too complicated.
The significance of white in Chinese culture? - liosama - 2009-12-11
Nice thought but yeah wrong unfortunately. The individual character itself, unless a pictograph or a very very straightforward ideograph has no chance of any of the sort of thing you mentioned. If you think something is out of the ordinary then think otherwise because although it may seem so, it is purely coincidental and you are thinking too much (which is a good thing!)
Regardless of that fact, at least it helps out with your stories. So while factually it may be wrong, there is no need to stop thinking about it completely.
Well done
The significance of white in Chinese culture? - captal - 2009-12-12
Speaking of white- I walked by a Japanese wedding in Tenjin today- I asked my girlfriend why they wear those white "egg" looking hats. She had no idea besides that it was Japanese custom. I thought perhaps there is some symbolism behind the design- anyone know?
The significance of white in Chinese culture? - jonjimbo2000 - 2009-12-12
I heard those white hoods have something to do with hiding the brides "horns". I'm sure someone else can give a better explanation.