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+--- Thread: Interference from real words? (/thread-6353.html)
Interference from real words? - bladethecoder - 2010-09-13
Since I finished RTK and started learning Japanese at a decent pace, my RTK retention has gone down. It was at about 85% most of the way through, but is getting towards 70% now. I am confusing related keywords that I never confused before, like "sleep" and "lie down". I have heard of this happening, but wasn't expecting it so soon. Is this likely to get better again, or should I switch to (say) Nukemarine's Anki deck?
Interference from real words? - vinniram - 2010-09-13
I've become pretty lazy with the RTK deck, because I'm going all out with my anki sentence mining deck. I think as long as you don't let the RTK deck get totally out of hand (I have 200 expired and about 500 failed, so maybe that is a bit out of hand...) it should be alright. But RTK gives you the best skill of knowing HOW to write the kanji. I'm starting to realize now that they keywords aren't that important, except for when I need to remember them to remember which kanji goes with which word.
Interference from real words? - bladethecoder - 2010-09-13
The keywords might not be very important, but failing cards causes more reviews. I hoped my number of daily reviews would go down once I stopped adding cards.
Interference from real words? - hereticalrants - 2010-09-13
When that happens, just add the real reading and maybe an example word.
It's no big deal.
Interference from real words? - Delina - 2010-09-13
I've been having this problem, too, so I've been working on Japanese RTK.
http://wrightak.googlepages.com/afterrtk1
Interference from real words? - bladethecoder - 2010-09-14
Thanks, that confirms my suspicions. I'll see if I can make it work. RevTK is going to have custom keywords soon, and I preferred it while I was adding cards; but I think there are other reasons to go to Anki at this point in my studies, so this problem can be the thing that convinces me.
It's way too early for me to be doing pure Japanese RTK, but I think it will help to have the Japanese info on the front of the card in addition to the Heisig keyword.
Interference from real words? - Anna B - 2010-09-14
Delina Wrote:I've been having this problem, too, so I've been working on Japanese RTK.Thanks for this link--that's exactly what I wanted to do post-RTK, and Wrightak et al. have saved me a LOT of work.
http://wrightak.googlepages.com/afterrtk1
Interference from real words? - gavmck - 2010-09-14
When I finished RTK 6 months ago I was averaging 90% in reviews. As cards matured I expected my scores to rise but they've actually been dropping. I now average a little over 80%. Over time, the stories fade. I mostly fail on more mature cards which I haven't seen for a long time. As I relearn forgotten cards, other cards "fall off the edge of memory". Ultimately, you can't remember the fine details of each story forever.
I've been slowly building an Anki deck of all the RTK kanji. Each card has a small selection of words containing the kanji in question - enough words to cover all the readings and give a sense of the meanings. I've been reviewing the cards both ways. One thing I've noticed is that, once I've entered a kanji into my Anki deck, I no longer fail it in RTK.
Clearly, RTK is only a crutch to help until you can familiarise yourself with the kanji through reading. I think that encountering a kanji in a variety of contexts (reading, Anki deck etc.) is needed to provide good retention. When I eventually finish my Anki deck I'll finally retire my RevTK one which has served me well.
I still confuse keywords like "pole and poles" or "difference and distinction". Now I've finished adding words to RTK I've stopped failing cards like this during my RevTK reviews. I just pass them regardless since I'm not really failing the kanji - I know the kanji but just keep confusing the keyword. With ones like that, I just enter them in my Anki deck (where I'm testing myself on actual Japanese words) and forget about them in RevTK.
I'ts not that Anki is better than RevTK. Rather, RTK/RevTK alone doesn't provide a rich enough context. Both Anki and RevTK are like stabiliser wheels on a bike. Eventually, after enough exposure to Japanese I can dispense with them - or so I hope.
Interference from real words? - bladethecoder - 2010-09-17
The "Import progress from Koohii" plugin claims there are no Heisig cards in Nukemarine's deck. It works with the most popular RTK deck. I have reviewed the plugin code, and compared the structures of the two decks, and I can't see what the problem is. I will keep looking, and sleep on it to try again tomorrow; but if anyone knows, please tell me. (It's probably something that's obvious in retrospect.)
Interference from real words? - bladethecoder - 2010-09-18
I figured it out, eventually. The plugin expects only one card template in the Heisig model; if there is more than one, it will take one arbitrarily. In Nukemarine's deck there is a card template for recognition, containing zero cards, hence the problem. I deleted this template and then the import worked.
Bye-bye RevTK SRS, and many thanks =)