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分かる or わかる？ - Printable Version

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分かる or わかる？ - arch9443 - 2010-08-18

So 分かる has been making me curious lately. I read somewhere that the Kanji for it is iffy and to just use the kana version. And then on Lang 8 when reading through entries I noticed that anytime someone used 分かる a Japanese person would take it out and replace it with kana in the correction. However I'm sure I've seen it in Kanji quite often. And I'm currently playing through Tales of Vesperia and it's in Kanji quite often, but I've noticed not quite always.

On a related note is there any reason why certain words will appear in both kana and kanji versions throughout a single game. It seems like each game would stick to a certain style, but that's not the case.

For example 大丈夫 is in Kanji quite often in Tales of Vesperia, but a few times it's been
だいじょうぶ.

Is it just depending on the situation/ a stylistic choice? or is there another reason.

分かる or わかる？ - yudantaiteki - 2010-08-18

It's hard to know; it can be random or a stylistic choice depending on the situation.

I've noticed the frequent use of kana for わかる. This is just a guess, but I think that it has to do with the fact that 分 is usually "divide" and some native speakers may feel like it's better to use 解る when it means "understand". But 解る is not a Jouyou reading so that may cause enough confusion (also there's 判る too) that people just avoid the issue by writing it in kana.

分かる or わかる？ - kazelee - 2010-08-18

I've never had a native change 分かる to わかる. Can't say I've seen it done on any other journals either.

I'm pretty sure it's a style thing as well as I've seen both versions before. I've only seen 解る in a book.

分かる or わかる？ - Asriel - 2010-08-18

In handwriting and text messages, my Japanese friends usually write わかる.
Unless they're typing something on a computer, like reports or in emails it'll be 分かる.

Just an observation.

Google results:
わかる: 69.5 million
分かる: 36.3 million
take it for what you will

分かる or わかる？ - Iryoku - 2010-08-18

.

分かる or わかる？ - ta12121 - 2010-08-19

For me I usual like using the kanjified version of words/phrases in japanese

分かる or わかる？ - bodhisamaya - 2010-08-19

arch9443 Wrote:And then on Lang 8 when reading through entries I noticed that anytime someone used 分かる a Japanese person would take it out and replace it with kana in the correction.
Oh, that's just me. I created a Japanese profile to mess with people's minds.

分かる or わかる？ - Tobberoth - 2010-08-19

Iryoku Wrote:There's quite a difference, actually. It's just like in 会う、逢う、遭う； 聞く、聴く；　見る、観る、視る、覧る；　帰る、還る... or 変える、代える、換える、替える! ... etc... I managed to confuse you even more, didn't I? ^^

Now to the point. The reason they changed it to 平仮名 is cause some (many) people can't make the difference.

If you don't want to worry about it, just use わかる.

Now for the actual explanation:
(I came up with the examples myself)

解る　→　People use this most often but don't realize it. It's pretty much the same as 理解する (to understand, to comprehend).
例その①:　この本の内容が解らない。
例その②：　貴方の気持ちが解る。
etc...

判る　→　A shortening for 判明する (turn up, turn out, prove, to confirm, to discern, to identify... this pretty much covers it).
例その①：　彼が犯人だと判った。
例その②：　写真を見て、僕は誰だか判る？
例その③：　その方法が間違ってると判ってきた。
etc...

分かる　→　This is somewhat close to 解る, but has one major difference. It's 解る＋分別する in a single verb (to understand, to judge)
例その①：　貴方の気持ちが分かる。 (same as above, isn't it? ^^)
例その②：　何で本人があんなことをしたか漸く分かった。
etc...

I think this pretty much covers it. When you aren't completely sure of something, just write it in 平仮名.
Awesome post. I had no idea that there was a proper "understanding" meaning to 分 usage.

分かる or わかる？ - torokun - 2010-08-19

What he said.

And I would add that わかる just looks weird in most cases. 分かる is the default unless it's more fitting to use 解 or 判.

分かる or わかる？ - yudantaiteki - 2010-08-19

I don't really think you can say it "looks weird" when Google suggests it's by far the preferred version for native speakers. You may think it looks weird, but Japanese people don't seem to think so.

分かる or わかる？ - arch9443 - 2010-08-19

yudantaiteki Wrote:I don't really think you can say it "looks weird" when Google suggests it's by far the preferred version for native speakers. You may think it looks weird, but Japanese people don't seem to think so.
I'm not sure why mine is so different. But when I searched in google.

わかる - 75,900,000 results
分かる - 96,700,000 results

I'm sure I"m doing something wrong. Do I need to have my settings a specific way to get more accurate results? I think that when I searched for 分かる it also picked up any instances of わかる.

分かる or わかる？ - yudantaiteki - 2010-08-19

Don't forget to put it in quotation marks. Otherwise like you said, it sometimes picks up instances of other spellings.

分かる or わかる？ - kazelee - 2010-08-19

yudantaiteki Wrote:Don't forget to put it in quotation marks. Otherwise like you said, it sometimes picks up instances of other spellings.
You're both wrong. Tongue

You have to set the default search language to Japanese. You'll notice that the kanji version's result far outnumber the kana whether quotes are used or not.

"分かる" 139 mil
"わかる" 81 mil

分かる 252 mil
わかる 82 mil

分かる or わかる？ - Asriel - 2010-08-19

No Quotes:
わかる：　69.7 million
分かる：　34.2 million
screenshot: http://i37.tinypic.com/aub23r.png

Quotes:
わかる：　66.9 million
分かる：　89 million
screenshot: http://i35.tinypic.com/34eovn4.png

So without quotes, hiragana wins, but with quotes, kanji wins.
Everything here was done with Google searching in Japanese, as you can tell by the menu things up at the top.

Interesting note: without quotes, 分かる also picks up わかる
Note #2: Since the last post, the increases are interesting too:
わかる: Up 0.2 million
分かる: Down 2.1 million

The use of 分かる is going down AS WE SPEAK. Kanji is DIEING everyone!

分かる or わかる？ - zachandhobbes - 2010-08-19

On Google.jp (not sure if it makes a difference)

Without Quotes

分かる: 34.5 million
わかる: 66.9 million

With Quotes

分かる: 30 million
わかる: 66.9 million

It seems to be changing constantly... lmao

分かる or わかる？ - Fillanzea - 2010-08-19

Google doesn't accurately count very large numbers; it uses some kind of handwavey algorithm to estimate them.

分かる or わかる？ - Aijin - 2010-08-19

I am rather sceptical about using the numbers from Google search results as an accurate measurement of an entire language's usage of vocabulary.It may be better than nothing for determining if something is correct, but I don't think it really compares to actual exposure to conversation as used in daily life, newspapers, novels, news, music, manga, and all the other sources of the language. Google numbers can disagree with me all they want, my entire life experience says 分かる is more common in actual use.
Let's also not forget that Google often comes up with over a million results for obscure vocabulary that any native would easily know would not be acceptable to use in general, as only maybe one in 10,000 people would know the word.

As to why kanji is used over hiragana, or vice versa, there's not really a single answer. In general:
- hiragana is preferrable for younger, less educated characters, since it reflects their own mental development;
- characters may use certain writing styles as a reflection of their own characterization;
- often during emotional events hiragana may be used to give it more of the flavor of speech rather than a literary flavor (the why of this is easily debatable; some argue that it's because the phonetics are more directly related to our emotional essence, whereas kanji forms are the product of mental education)
- personal writing style of the author
- add variety, similar to how an English author may begin to use synonyms to avoid repetition if the same word is occuring too frequently
- completely meaningless choice of the author, just like when you wake up you might decide, "Hey, I want eggs!" the author might just think, "Screw it, let's write the word in hiragana!"

分かる or わかる？ - yudantaiteki - 2010-08-19

Well, it's going to be more common on the computer because わかる is often what comes up by default in the IME depending on which one you're using. I have definitely seen it outside of the Internet, though, although I can't say which one is more common. 分かる is the only Jouyou-approved way to write the word (aside from kana), so that may appear in schoolbooks as well.

分かる or わかる？ - Anna B - 2010-08-19

While we were on the phone the other day, a friend and I did an identical-input Google search within a couple of minutes of each other and got different results. I think the Google algorithm is so dynamic and the internet is so vast that I'd be surprised if that didn't happen.

WRT the OP, my Japanese friend always uses 分かる in her emails.

分かる or わかる？ - quincy - 2010-08-19

yudantaiteki Wrote:Well, it's going to be more common on the computer because わかる is often what comes up by default in the IME depending on which one you're using. I have definitely seen it outside of the Internet, though, although I can't say which one is more common. 分かる is the only Jouyou-approved way to write the word (aside from kana), so that may appear in schoolbooks as well.
Most IMEs will adapt to your writing style and present the form you usually use first.

分かる or わかる？ - thurd - 2010-08-19

I do such comparisons quite often and I do it like this : "わかる" site:.jp

This makes sure I'm only looking at sites that are in Japanese domain (not every Japanese site is in it but it also takes care of Chinese that gets in the way of your results where there's no kana, overall a much better sample to test such things) and I get this (google.co.jp):

わかる = 約 51,000,000 件
分かる = 約 14,200,000 件
解る = 約 1,170,000 件
判る = 約 7,500,000 件

Seems like kana version is by far the most popular of all.

分かる or わかる？ - yudantaiteki - 2010-08-19

quincy Wrote:
yudantaiteki Wrote:Well, it's going to be more common on the computer because わかる is often what comes up by default in the IME depending on which one you're using. I have definitely seen it outside of the Internet, though, although I can't say which one is more common. 分かる is the only Jouyou-approved way to write the word (aside from kana), so that may appear in schoolbooks as well.
Most IMEs will adapt to your writing style and present the form you usually use first.
True, but I would suspect that a lot of native speakers don't really care much about fine points of kana and kanji usage when they're just trying to type a forum post or e-mail or something like that, and in some cases in which the choice is not crystal clear, you may see whatever the initial default the IME gives as the most popular choice. Unlike some other kanji choices, I suspect that for many native speakers, the difference between 分かる and わかる is either unclear or not that important.

分かる or わかる？ - zachandhobbes - 2010-08-19

Yeah, I've got the feeling that reading this topic, it's either or.

You say Tomato I say Tomato, as they always say.

Wait... that didn't work well.

分かる or わかる？ - iSoron - 2010-08-19

Fillanzea Wrote:Google doesn't accurately count very large numbers; it uses some kind of handwavey algorithm to estimate them.
I would not trust Google's numbers at all. Quick example: according to Google there are more than 3 million hits (sometimes more than 12 million hits) for 「わかりますのだ」 Scroll to page two, though, and it will tell you the truth: it could only find 12 occurrences.

Also, Google does not perform stemming if you use quotes ("わかる" does not match "わかっている").

分かる or わかる？ - kazelee - 2010-08-19

@Asriel

Screenshot is unnecessary. Either result can be reproduced with the correct settings.

Google is a lying whore, though. I just flipped between result using the forward and back buttons and it was different each time.

Yahoo says that わかる occurs twice as often - with or without quotes. Okay so now it's definite.　Tongue